• Posty McPostface
    2.8k
    Too badPosty McPostface

    Well, this runs deep into what I fundamentally believe philosophy is to many (not all!) people. A coping mechanism meshed with a large amount of the defence mechanism of reality manifest in intellectualization. Some call it mental masturbation; but, I digress.

    I just want to read something inspiring from Wittgenstein instead of the constant deepness present in all his remarks about language, reality, and the world.
  • Noble Dust
    2.8k
    Well, this runs deep into what I fundamentally believe philosophy is to many (not all!) people. A coping mechanism meshed with a large amount of the defence mechanism of reality manifest in intellectualization. Some call it mental masturbation; but, I digress.Posty McPostface

    There's certainly plenty of mental masturbators around these parts. That's not the same as real inner anguish, though; quite the opposite...

    I just want to read something inspiring from Wittgenstein instead of the constant deepness present in all his remarks about language, reality, and the world.Posty McPostface

    Surely there's other folks to turn to for inspiring quotes other than Witty.
  • Posty McPostface
    2.8k
    That's not the same as real inner anguish, though; quite the opposite...Noble Dust

    See, and this is in my opinion the problem with philosophy or continental philosophy. Namely, that that inner anguish serves as a volition to create a world view (through intellectualization and emotive reasoning) via philosophy. Not all philosophers fall into that trap, as Wittgenstein did not; but, some never recover (Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, nihilism, pessimism, and so on etc.)

    Surely there's other folks to turn to for inspiring quotes other than Witty.Noble Dust

    Indeed, Hegel stands pretty high on my list, along with Kant. Hegel for asserting the truth that every person can find a place working towards the betterment of society, and Kant for being true, genuine, and sincere in his philosophy.
  • Noble Dust
    2.8k
    See, and this is in my opinion the problem with philosophy or continental philosophy. Namely, that that inner anguish serves as a volition to create a world view (through intellectualization and emotive reasoning) via philosophy. Not all philosophers fall into that trap, as Wittgenstein did not; but, some never recover (Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, nihilism, pessimism, and so on etc.)Posty McPostface

    Can you blame anyone who experiences inner anguish to want to formalize a worldview? What's another way to respond to inner anguish in which a worldview isn't subsequently formed?
  • Posty McPostface
    2.8k
    Can you blame anyone who experiences inner anguish to want to formalize a worldview? What's another way to respond to inner anguish in which a worldview isn't subsequently formed?Noble Dust

    I believe that one ought not to jump too deep into the pessimism, nihilism, and absurdism rampant in philosophy. It seems like every other day we get a thread about the need for therapy instead of dwelling on the sad and negative emotions.

    Obviously, there's nobody around to tell you that. Is this a failure of philosophy as a discipline itself?
  • Noble Dust
    2.8k


    I don't know that I would characterize the corpus of Western philosophy as a whole as pessimistic. For myself, I've found that inner anguish lead me to philosophy, which lead to a sharpening of my ability to reason and intuit, and think. My life hasn't gotten better since getting into philosophy, but that's because of my own poor choices and character deficiencies. Maybe that's the limit of philosophy, per academia. Academic philosophy, as much as I've tasted, has helped me think. Thinking as is doesn't help one live life. Thinking needs to have a motivation which prompts action. Philosophy itself is never enough to prompt action.
  • Noble Dust
    2.8k
    I believe that one ought not to jump too deep into the pessimism, nihilism, and absurdism rampant in philosophy. It seems like every other day we get a thread about the need for therapy instead of dwelling on the sad and negative emotions.Posty McPostface

    I just re-read through, as I tend to do (because I tend to respond too quickly), and I think you edited this, right? It's interesting you bring up nihilism and absurdism, things that I don't think I would say are rampant on the forum, but definitely present. As far as I can tell, these perspectives are a cocktail of inner anguish, simple ignorance, and the blotation of academic philosophy into a masturbation contest, like you hinted at. Nothing about those views has anything to do with real life...until academia inevitably bleeds down into real life...
  • Posty McPostface
    2.8k
    I just re-read through, as I tend to do (because I tend to respond too quickly), and I think you edited this, right?Noble Dust

    Yeah, I tend to edit everything I post. For spelling mistakes and clarification of my position and thoughts about things.

    It's interesting you bring up nihilism and absurdism, things that I don't think I would say are rampant on the forum, but definitely present.Noble Dust

    Well, they are strong triggers to the emotional aspect of human beings, especially those that display an attitude of depression or pessimism. I would call them the logical consequence of a depressive mindset. Since, they are based on emotions and emotive reasoning, they are hard to argue with and seem very real to the arguer. Hence, it is easy to get 'stuck' in that mindset and then indulge in the philosophers who also felt that way about life.
  • Noble Dust
    2.8k


    It's interesting, because that makes total sense; get stuck in pessimistic thoughts = gravitate to the pessimists. But for myself (and I'm sure for others) it's been the opposite; I get stuck in pessimism and nihilistic thoughts, and it just makes me crave the sort of "sacred" optimism of certain thinkers. But this is obviously because of my religious background; I'm craving the certainty of a religious truth. But philosophers like Berdyaev and Maritain, and the Christian mystics, who have ultimately optimistic views, are actually the thinkers I turn to when I'm in the worst depression. But I can't see how either approach might be better; it can be equally unhealthy to turn to pessimism or optimism in those circumstances... again, the issue seems to come down to action. If neither approach can lead to real action in the real world, then?...But what can catapult action in the real world, when depression is preventing action? Again, not just ideas, not even optimistic ideas.
  • Posty McPostface
    2.8k
    But I can't see how either approach might be better; it can be equally unhealthy to turn to pessimism or optimism in those circumstances... again, the issue seems to come down to action. If neither approach can lead to real action in the real world, then?...But what can catapult action in the real world, when depression is preventing action? Again, not just ideas, not even optimistic ideas.Noble Dust

    What you're really talking about is change. That's hard to do through reason alone. Though, I am in the same boast, so to speak, and treat philosophy as therapy.
  • Noble Dust
    2.8k


    Yes, reason can't change a person's life, qualitatively. If you're addicted, depressed, emotionally paralyzed, then reason won't help you. Philosophy as a whole, if you're of sound enough mind to interface with the concepts, can, at best, give you a deeper understanding of thinking, and maybe the human condition as well.

    I don't treat philosophy as therapy, though. I treat it as a way to sharpen the sword-brain, if you will. Or at least, that's how I treat it now-adays.
  • Posty McPostface
    2.8k


    Well, isn't that some form of prophylactic therapy in your mind? To better address any potential future issues that may arise in your mind or in the real world?
  • Noble Dust
    2.8k


    I was thinking more in terms of the therapy I've had myself, but sure, it could be prophylactic.
  • StreetlightX
    2.3k
    "Nothing is more painful than the spiteful jeremiads about the abstraction of philosophers and the little concern they show for explaining and giving a meaning to “lived experience” ... [The philosopher] puts action in crisis, and conceives action only from out of such a state of crisis. He wants rhythm in action. The philosopher causes a crisis and knows nothing other than this; he has nothing to say about the rest, and testifies in his quasi-silence to a singular modesty, glorious and haughty."

    - Francois Zourabichvili, Deleuze: A Philosophy of the Event
  • StreetlightX
    2.3k
    Wittgenstein, king of sass:

    "How do I recognize that this colour is red? One answer would be: 'I have learnt English.'"

    You can almost hear the "you imbicile" tacked on to the end of that.
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