As I mentioned Aquinas makes a distinction between persons of the Trinity and essence. You need to familiarize yourself with the concepts of person and essence before you can attack it. — MoK
I cannot find a flaw in his argument. Could you? I am not saying that I agree with his metaphysics though but that is a different topic. — MoK
MoK and John have the same essence by this I mean they both are made of matter. They however have different properties so they are different.I do find serious flaws in the claim, when it says, just because MoK has the same essence as John i.e. being human, MoK and John is one. I would point out, MoK is Mok, and John is John. They are two, not one. — Corvus
MoK and John have the same essence by this I mean they both are made of matter. They however have different properties so they are different. — MoK
Trinity doctrine is unsound and invalid. — Corvus
I've been reading Aquinas's treatise on the Trinity today and it resonates with how my mind interacts with itself. It seems the left hemisphere is Father, right is Son, and center "eye" is that which is spirated (love). I easily can be confused about who i am *by* this of course, or *inspite* of this. — Gregory
From the discussions so far, it seems to be safe to conclude that,
1) Jesus was not God. He doesn't appear to be omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. If he was, then he could not be in the situation he was, and would not have said what the OP noted.
2) Jesus was not one with God. Therefore Trinity doctrine is unsound and invalid. — Corvus
Any arguments summarizing anything we know are formed in mysterious ways. Yet it continues to be easy to allow ourselves to draw such concrete conclusion about OTHER things, such as what "Trinity" is (be it valid or sound, or conceivable, or not), while remaining utterly inconclusive about what it means to KNOW anything. — Fire Ologist
No, as I mentioned, the persons of the Trinity are different from God's essence. I already cited an article on the topic if you are interested in reading more, as I cannot summarize the discussion on this topic shortly. @Count Timothy von Icarus summarized and discussed the idea in a relatively short post here.So we can conclude that Jesus and God is not one. — Corvus
Do you agree Jesus doesn't have God's essence from the OP's implication?No, as I mentioned, the persons of the Trinity are different from God's essence. — MoK
If you are looking at the issue from general logic, then you could. You don't want to dip into the water of theology, because there is no general logic in there. If you want to bring in the traditional theology into the discussion, then we need to discuss in the domain of faith then, which transcends general logic, needn't we?I already cited an article on the topic if you are interested in reading more, as I cannot summarize the discussion on this topic shortly. — MoK
If those words were the last words that Jesus said then yes, Jesus and God are not one.Do you agree Jesus doesn't have God's essence from the OP's implication? — Corvus
No, I cannot. The concept of Christian God has been the subject of discussion by several important scholars for about 1000 years. It is not possible to summarize their works in a short post. I already cited Aquinas's article on the subject of the Trinity. Did you read it? I also suggested you read the post of @Count Timothy von Icarus. Did you read it?If you are looking at the issue from general logic, then you could. — Corvus
If those words were the last words that Jesus said then yes, Jesus and God are not one. — MoK
No, I cannot. The concept of Christian God has been the subject of discussion by several important scholars for about 1000 years. It is not possible to summarize their works in a short post. I already cited Aquinas's article on the subject of the Trinity. Did you read it? I also suggested you read the post of Count Timothy von Icarus. Did you read it? — MoK
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