Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment.
a young person at a Buddhist group I attended started with, "Hi I'm Andy; I'm here tonight to attain enlightenment." Giggles and groans. I was immediately struck by that 'attain'. Pretty sure the monks have heard it all. — Tom Storm
I think also for some people, and I'm not thinking of anyone particular here, there's an emotional, almost visceral reaction to certain words. Before the person even considers the idea, the response is there already, dismissive and pugnacious - almost like a 'lizard brain', flight or fight response. You say Christianity, they immediately blurt out 'deception and pedophilia..'. That kind of thing. Maybe attachment can be added to the list of provocative trigger words. — Tom Storm
I don't think it's uncommon for notions like unattachment and detachment and apathy to merge into a maelstrom of studied indifference in mainstream Western eyes. — Tom Storm
Reminds me of Varela and Thompson’s account of the zen buddhist Nishitani’s critique of Nietzsche.
“Nishitami deeply admires Nietzsche's attempt but claims that it actually perpetuates the nihilistic predicament by not letting go of the grasping mind that lies at the souce of both objectivism and nihlism. Nishitani's argument is that nihilism cannot be overcome by assimilating groundlessness to a notion of the will-no matter how decentered and impersonal. Nishitani's diagnosis is even more radical than Nietzsche's, for he claims that the real problem with Western nihilism is that it is halfhearted: it does not consistently follow through its own inner logic and motivation and so stops short of transforming its partial realization of groundlessness into the philosophical and experiential possiblities of sunyata.”
I think what Nishitami failed to grasp was that will to
nothingness is still willing. Self for Nietzsche isnt an entity but a vector of change. — Joshs
I think what Nishitami failed to grasp was that will to
nothingness is still willing.
Self for Nietzsche isnt an entity but a vector of change.
Why should enlightenment be the same for each of us? — Banno
So this thread can go on indefinitely, as the various opinions of the participants vie for prominence. It's not that nothing can be decided so much as that whatever one decides will be right. — Banno
A sure sign that someone has not achieved enlightenment is their claim that they have achieved enlightenment.
Enlightenment is attributed to someone by others. — Banno
He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world. — baker
Self for Nietzsche isnt an entity but a vector of change.
— Josh’s
Sure, we can find a similar conception of self in Buddhism as well, by some Buddhist teachers, although this isn't mainstream.
For example, Thanissaro Bhikkhu: Selves & Not-self
He talks about the self as a strategy, as something one does (identifies with some things, disidentifies with others). — baker
And if such, enlightenment becomes irrelevant, or, at best, magic. — baker
enlightenment is something one knows as such. — baker
I think it's actually a very ordinary problem with a very ordinary solution; but there are so many distractions. The trick is that you have to want a solution; if you don't then you won't. That's not a problem either; unless it is. — Janus
As if it is more noble or more realistic to think that enlightenment is impossible to attain. — baker
Why, when Janus replied to me, did it not register or notify me of such like it usually does? — James Riley
That does happen sometimes. I think it's a software glitch, mods can't do anything about that. — Wayfarer
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