:up:... will to nothingness is still willing. Self for Nietzsche isnt an entity but a vector of change. — Joshs
This habit is wisdom. Enlightenment, Fool, is (the shock? of) recognizing the significance of – need, beginning with oneself, for cultivating – wisdom (aka "the daughter of experience").Responding to the right person/thing at the right time, in the right place, to the right amount/degree, for the right duration. Not too much, not too less, just right. — TheMadFool
:fire: Thus, "the enlightened" live (more) worthwhile examined livesI think to be enlightened is the realization that there are things that you don't know that you don't know.
Everyone knows there are things they don't know. But not everyone knows there are things that they don't know they don't know. — James Riley
I think also for some people, and I'm not thinking of anyone particular here, there's an emotional, almost visceral reaction to certain words. Before the person even considers the idea, the response is there already, dismissive and pugnacious - almost like a 'lizard brain', flight or fight response. You say Christianity, they immediately blurt out 'deception and pedophilia..'. That kind of thing. Maybe attachment can be added to the list of provocative trigger words. — Tom Storm
Why should enlightenment be the same for each of us? — Banno
What if it were profoundly different for each of us? — Joshs
Would there perhaps be certain themes in common? — Tom Storm
Why should enlightenment be the same for each of us? — Banno
Good question. I'm not sure it is meant to be the same but I have a poor understanding of the idea, hence this OP. Would there perhaps be certain themes in common? — Tom Storm
What if it were profoundly different for each of us?
— Joshs
...then enlightenment is enriched by not being limited.... — Banno
Thus, "the enlightened" live (more) worthwhile examined lives — 180 Proof
(My emphasis)Why should the experience of an apple be the same for all of us. — T Clark
People have shared experiences that are worth talking about. — T Clark
We're supposed to be adults here. — James Riley
...for Wittgenstein it cannot be profoundly different for each of us because experience is profoundly relational.
— Joshs
Sure, the box might be the same, but the beetle? — Banno
Have a look at this post where I attempt to disambiguate the word in respect of its European and Eastern applications. (Not that it makes a lot of difference to the mob.) — Wayfarer
Awkward language notwithstanding - Sadhuru is getting at something people haven't raised so far on this thread. The merits of enlightenment and the concomitant experience of everything becoming 'wonderful'. I wonder (sorry) what this means. It seems antithetical to self-annihilation however. Who exactly is the self experiencing the extinguished wonderfulness? Or is this what happens when mere words are used to describe the numinous? — Tom Storm
It seems antithetical to self-annihilation however. Who exactly is the self experiencing the extinguished wonderfulness? Or is this what happens when mere words are used to describe the numinous? — Tom Storm
Who exactly is the self experiencing the extinguished wonderfulness? — Tom Storm
Enlightenment means a conscious annihilation of yourself. For most people, it will take a certain amount of time and maturing to understand that whatever you make yourself to be, in the end, it is frustrating and not enough. However wonderful you make yourself, still it is not enough. Only when you disappear, everything becomes wonderful." — Tom Storm
"Enlightenment means a conscious annihilation of yourself. For most people, it will take a certain amount of time and maturing to understand that whatever you make yourself to be, in the end, it is frustrating and not enough. However wonderful you make yourself, still it is not enough. Only when you disappear, everything becomes wonderful."
Awkward language notwithstanding - Sadhuru is getting at something people haven't raised so far on this thread. The merits of enlightenment and the concomitant experience of everything becoming 'wonderful'. I wonder (sorry) what this means. It seems antithetical to self-annihilation however. Who exactly is the self experiencing the extinguished wonderfulness? Or is this what happens when mere words are used to describe the numinous? — Tom Storm
Maybe the eastern effort to harness it, through some kind of practice, is the equivalent of domesticating something wild: the result becomes us and we like it, but it's a watered-down version what we wanted when we saw it. It is not enough. — James Riley
I think this is a mistake. The idea is not to harness "It", but to harness the ego that occludes "it". — Janus
This issue has been substantially dealt with in Eastern (and some Western) spiritual practices. The "effort of non-effort" and all that. It only seems to be a problem to the dualistic Western mind set.
This is not to suggest it is easy, far from it. I don't know for sure that it is possible to completely eliminate attachment and become permanently non-attached (enlightened). But I am humble enough to realize that I don't know that it is not possible either.
I think the idea that it is about making an effort to "harness" anything is a common mistake. It is more about an effort to keep "coming back" to and allow something more primordial.
So, I shouldn't have spoken about harnessing the ego; I think it's more about moving away from it. — Janus
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