@DingoJones OK. But did socrates really come across as humble in the dialogues? He came across as a pedant who gleefully liked to make people squirm,a misanthrope.
And he certainly lied when he said all he knew is that he didn't know. The myth of the humility of philosophers is a romantic lie. Look at plato,Kent,hegel,schopenhauer,nietzsche,Wittgenstein etc,all arrogant folk who thought they could create some new world beating exclusive model of truth that applied to everyone. Is that humility?

@Tom Storm Quantum mechanics is a model,which has 57 interpretations,and a model which scientists don't understand. Just another theory. It's implications are that science is very very limited in its models and is not reality. Not real and not required in the main.
But your self esteem is absolutely vital to your and everybodies self being.

@Jack Cummins

skyblack

130

I think that in trying to see philosophy questions as stemming from fear, you are missing how curiosity and wondering are essential to human life. You make it seem as if the ideal is to be a happy robot, who doesn't ask questions. Philosophy and questioning goes back to ancient times, and is central to the evolution of human life.— Jack Cummins


I don't think OP is saying that one shouldn't question but his/her point, as far as i understand, is the approach of such questioning. I think OP is questioning the approach. Maybe he/she could have phrased the OP better.

And yes. ideally, the idea is a state where no questions or answers remain. The premise of all these questioning is to come to that, otherwise one will be considered off the hinges if they keep on questioning. And yes, a joyous life seems to be a worthwhile endeavor.

@skyblack has loosely identified that its the approach of questioning everything that i find bogus. It's as if a philosopher thinks he can reinvent the wheel. It's the questioning of things that are already certain.
It's the fact that a life of head in the clouds abstract thinking is neurotic and though good in the short term ends up with no real answers anyway. I mean,for all the years of philosophy there is hardly any agreement on anything! And the ultimate aim of life is joyful expression,not intellectual models.
You want to read books about art theory or be an artist?

@Manuel Is pain just a word?

@Mww Spoken like a true Elitist!

@180 Proof Moonlighting as some absurdist sage with a baroque posting style full of zappa,kafka,camus,et Al.
Certain in his uncertainty!!! Dogmatic in his provisional certainty!!!

@counterpunch Excessive reflection is a sign of low self esteem. And the title philosopher often used to bolster prestige,an appeal to authority.

Excessive reflection is a sign of low self esteem. And the title philosopher often used to bolster prestige,an appeal to authority. — Mystic

How do you know "Excessive reflection is a sign of low self esteem"? What examples can you cite of the title 'philosopher' being used to bolster prestige?

@counterpunch From my personal experience of philosophical folk.
Also,from the texts and life's of
Nietzeche,plato,Wittgenstein,aristotle,Kent,hegel.
Hegel thought his work was the aim of history.
That kind of arrogance only comes from paranoia and fear,AKA low self esteem. Their esteem comes from exaggeration,lambasting others and narcissism.

Also,from the texts and life's of
Nietzeche,plato,Wittgenstein,aristotle,Kent,hegel. — Mystic

Wow! I didn't know we had such a scholar among us! Good to know. If I have any questions about the life's or texts of "Nietzeche,plato,Wittgenstein,aristotle,Kent,hegel" I'll give you a shout!

@counterpunch I doubt you have questions.
More like your a crusader for the myth of sustainability,with a penchant for clichéd humour.

I doubt you have questions. — Mystic

I have questions.

For instance, Kent - how come no-one recognised him when he put his glasses on?

More like your a crusader for the myth of sustainability, with a penchant for clichéd humour. — Mystic

Hey, I never tell the same joke twice. ...I mean, hey, sustainability is not a myth!

@counterpunch You actually have some good jokes.
I like some of em. But a lot of dross in between.
Your timing is off.
And your getting your kunts mixed up...

You actually have some good jokes.
I like some of em. But a lot of dross in between.
Your timing is off.
And your getting your kunts mixed up... — Mystic

How gracious of you to notice all the dross in between. Maybe I should give up being a crusader for the myth of sustainability, and become a stand up comedian. Or failing that, a priest!

@counterpunch I think stand up would be good.
But practice...

I think stand up would be good.
But practice... — Mystic

Thank you for your sage advice. But I must away, for even now - I begin a long and arduous journey in search of the one true humour!

Oh, and timing....

@counterpunch Your getting better!
Your so much better when not preaching doom and gloom about the weather...

Is self esteem a lack of philosophical reflection? — counterpunch

After much philosophical reflection, La Rochefoucauld concluded that self esteem is the reason why we do most of what we do. We want to feel proud of ourselves, so even when we think we are being generous and selfless, we still unconsciously look at ourselves in the mirror saying "ain't I look good?"

That is a rather sobering outlook on humankind, one that does NOT pump up our self esteem at all, and nobody is obliged to believe it, but I think it's a good "hypothesis zero": unless proven otherwise, people tend to like themselves more than they like others, and they are prone to lie to themselves about how good they are.

In this perspective, philosophy is but one of many acts of self-affirmation, an act of pride by the philosopher, which consists in reviewing the deepest assumptions and presupositions of "common sense" (or anything else passing for normative), and showing how they could be rephrased or reformulated better.

@Olivier5 I agree that this is true for the majority of people. Further the "freudian" psychologist alfred adler suggested people's motivations come from an inferiority complex,thus the need to act out,to be needlessley proud and lie about our prowess.
However,I have met folks that absolutely do not fit this observation. And those folks come from a place of confidence,not doubt and inferiority.

people's motivations come from an inferiority complex,thus the need to act out,to be needlessley proud and lie about our prowess. However,I have met folks that absolutely do not fit this observation. And those folks come from a place of confidence,not doubt and inferiority. — Mystic

Yes, and sometimes this self-confidence is well-placed.

@Olivier5 Agreed.

And sometimes, this self-confidence they have comes from having gone through a period of doubt, serious doubt, and having overcome it or survived it somehow. People who have never been through any period of self-doubt can't really know how much they should trust themselves. They just take it for granted and don't question it. They can still afford to be 'cocksure", they haven't been 'tested' yet. They are like little children who think they can conquer the world.

@Olivier5 I would put it this way. Those who had doubts but reemerged to their innate confidence have overcome trauma,low self esteem.
But there are those who have no trauma and no doubt and are fully confident. They don't need testing through doubt. Their confidence already expresses their trustworthiness.
They look upon philosophers as either neurotic or going through trauma.

It's at least that.

But in all seriousness, what the heck does low self esteem have to do with philosophy?

It makes no sense at all.

@Manuel Philosophers are very fond of claiming they question assumptions.
Well,question the assumption Philosophers are searching for truth rather than just bolstering their esteem.

That doesn't make sense.

This is the nature of philosophical questions, they tend to be foundational.

@Manuel Questions are not foundational.
Life is foundational.
Yours is a philosophers disease. Such,that you can't even yet fathom or understand what I'm saying.
Clue; what is the real motivation for skepticism and doubt on obvious facts?

Even if I were to concede that those particular philosophers lacked humility that wouldnt mean all of philosophy lacks humility. There are scientists who lack humility do you think science lack humility because if them?

Certainly philosophy has aspects of what you are talking about, when the discussions go in circles or the topics are endlessly rehashed. Thats a fair criticism in my view, but Im not sure what that has to do with self esteem.
What I would defend is the process of asking questions and what sing doubt as a method to figuring out the answers to those questions. Its healthy to question ones positions and views, especially the ones we hold on the frontiers of knowledge or that we hold most dear.

@DingoJones At what point does one accept that one has found truth? Can you name some of those truths?
Doubt as a foundation is negative,and symptomatic of an unsure person. Hardly inspires confidence does it?