The Arab-Isreali conflict, the Khartoum resolution, and the years of “meaningful” conflict between these countries is well known, despite your hand waves. Until now Israeli planes couldn’t even enter Sudanese or UAE airspace, let alone begin talks for embassies, ambassadors, tourism, investment and telecommunications.

But “normalization” and the brokering of diplomatic relations between Israel and some Arab states is a huge accomplishment. — NOS4A2

Actually, especially Saudi Arabia and Israel have already found each other as both fear Iran. Saudi-Arabia here is important as the largest GCC member, which also creates the opportunity for smaller states simply to start normalizing their relations.

As I have repeated again and again, not ONE of those Gulf States have ever deployed a single soldier to fight Israel. Ever. The Saudis haven't done that since the Israeli war of Independence. It's a positive move, yes, but it really isn't as a breakthrough as you think, especially after Egypt and Jordan have already normalized their relations with Israel. Still, it's a positive thing.

Yet tone down those superlatives, NOS4A2.

Actually, especially Saudi Arabia and Israel have already found each other as both fear Iran. Saudi-Arabia here is important as the largest GCC member, which also creates the opportunity for smaller states simply to start normalizing their relations.

As I have repeated again and again, not ONE of those Gulf States have ever deployed a single soldier to fight Israel. Ever. The Saudis haven't done that since the Israeli war of Independence. It's a positive move, yes, but it really isn't as a breakthrough as you think, especially after Egypt and Jordan have already normalized their relations with Israel. Still, it's a positive thing.

Yet tone down those superlatives, NOS4A2.

Soviet Russia never had any direct battles with the US in the Cold War, therefor the end of those tensions wasn’t much of a breakthrough, because it wasn’t a “meaningful” conflict.

The question is not how long till he's out of office, but how long until he's committed to a mental institution. — Metaphysician Undercover

I wonder if he will break down when he can no longer avoid facing up to the reality of his loss. His ego relies on constant affirmation, on being surrounded by people telling him how great he is. Let’s see what happens.

Soviet Russia never had any direct battles with the US in the Cold War, therefor the end of those tensions wasn’t much of a breakthrough, because it wasn’t a “meaningful” conflict. — NOS4A2

Sorry, but that's not true.

There were many Soviet aces in the Korean War and Stalin decided that the Soviet Air Force would rotate fighter regiments to fight in the war. Hence US and Russian Air Force fought over the "Mig Alley" of North Korea. Natural was to hide this fact, as people would have become even more worried if both sides would have admitted that they are fighting each other. And it isn't the only example of this during the Cold War.

Soviet fighter aces of the Korean War. The success in the Korean War (which continued even in the Vietnam war) lulled the Soviet Air Force to trust that the American air force didn't have any edge over them.


And you cannot relate these tiny Gulf states that have no weapons of mass destruction as a serious competitor to a regional power like Israel. Or are you really comparing these tiny states or dirt poor Sudan to Soviet Union???

If that’s true I guess the Cold War ended during the 50’s. So did the North-Soth Korean conflict, apparently. No peaceful breakthroughs are possible when the soldiers aren’t shooting each other.

I was referring to your first statement that "Soviet Russia never had any direct battles with the US in the Cold War". And this was false.

To your second statement, if two nations are on opposing sides of some conflict, but not in open battle, then the seriousness of this comes from the possibility of an armed conflict. Cold War was serious.

First, no Gulf State will out of the blue start hostilities with Israel or vice versa. Only Israel has nuclear weapons and the capability to strike these countries with impunity. It would be different if the GCC members would have their own nuclear deterrent capable to strike Israel. They haven't and their threat scenarios aren't about Israel, but about Iran and possibly Iraq. And heck, for some countries their possible enemy is Saudi-Arabia or other GCC members!

This really is a similar "breakthrough" if Morocco and Israel would normalize their relations in a similar fashion. Absolutely "breathtaking achievement" that would be for the MIddle East. And Moroccan troops have actually fought the Israelis, btw. :roll:

Actually it is true because a Cold War is a war without direct military action by definition. I wasn’t aware of Soviet soldiers in the Vietnam, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but if you are arguing it was a hot war I might need more than that.

After checking your statement that “not ONE of those Gulf States have ever deployed a single soldier to fight Israel. Ever”, I found that to be false. Sudan sent a few thousand soldiers during the Yom Kippur war in the 70’s.

Either way I remain unconvinced. I cannot believe that a peaceful resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict, as shaky as that may be, is not serious.

After checking your statement that “not ONE of those Gulf States have ever deployed a single soldier to fight Israel. Ever”, I found that to be false. Sudan sent a few thousand soldiers during the Yom Kippur war in the 70’s. — NOS4A2

Learn geography, NOS4A2

Sudan isn't a Gulf State. It's in Africa, not in the Arabian Peninsula.

My mistake. Sorry my eyes gloss over after about a few of your sentences. I didn’t realize you were actively excluding one of the countries under discussion.

My mistake. Sorry my eyes gloss over after about a few of your sentences. I didn’t realize you were actively excluding one of the countries under discussion. — NOS4A2

Seeing as Trump is becoming increasingly irrelevant, this thread is likely to soon outlive its usefulness and fade away. Ditto for NOS.

Donald Trump is no despot, nor is he the first president to exploit the 'power lie'

Sam Harris: #224 - THE KEY TO TRUMP’S APPEAL

This thread may be about Trump, and may fade... but the issues that Trump manipulated remain, and will reemerge.

Probably wishful thinking on my part. Sick of the orange monkey and his entourage of clowns.

Pompey worked out how to use the Roman army to intimidate his way into political power. Julius Caesar adopted his method and worked out how to manipulate popular support; he was defeated by the Senate. Augustus built on the strategy developed by Caesar, sidelining the Senate. The Republic was not overthrown at one blow, but by building on successive successful strategies.

The lesson some will be taking on board now is that fixing numbers in the Senate and popular cult status is insufficient; one also needs to gain control of the judiciary; and fixing numbers of Supremes is insufficient; State courts will also need to be fixed.

But the process for undermining any last semblance of democracy is in place; the oligarchy is becoming explicit.

:clap:

You guys are meant to be so smart, but I don’t think so.

How is it that you can’t see what’s happening?

Is it that you can’t see or just don’t want to see? Or is it all too much for your peanut brains.

How is it that you can’t see what’s happening? — Brett

Is this what you mean?

The "Elephant in the Room" is the population explosion which is an exponential increase. Humanity is hurtling toward a population level that will not be a sustainable. The first thing to go will be the Welfare State, Economies, Rule of Law and Civilisation will collapse under the load, and technology will be too late. — Drazjan

Why should this prediction be believed this time around, after it has failed so many times before?

The presumed population "explosion" has in fact already happened. The rate of population increase is slowing, and we can make decent guesses about when it will stabilise. Even if we were willing to expend more effort to slow the increase, it's unlikely to make much of a difference.

The real elephant in the room is not population size, but resource consumption per capita.

Pompey worked out how to use the Roman army to intimidate his way into political power. Julius Caesar adopted his method and worked out how to manipulate popular support; he was defeated by the Senate. Augustus built on the strategy developed by Caesar, sidelining the Senate. The Republic was not overthrown at one blow, but by building on successive successful strategies.

The lesson some will be taking on board now is that fixing numbers in the Senate and popular cult status is insufficient; one also needs to gain control of the judiciary; and fixing numbers of Supremes is insufficient; State courts will also need to be fixed.

But the process for undermining any last semblance of democracy A Republic (B. Franklin) is in place; the oligarchy is becoming explicit. — Banno

:up:

The US has had 'our Pompey' (Reagan) and 'our Julius Caesar' (Dubya) but not yet 'our Augustus'. This accidental, premature 'Nero' (Trump :point: "He would see this country burn if he could be King of the ashes." ~Varys The Spider) more likely than not foreshadows a DOA empire (formerly styled "Pax Americana") in free fall ...

How is it that you can’t see what’s happening?

Is it that you can’t see or just don’t want to see? Or is it all too much for your peanut brains. — Brett

Spell it out Brett - what is happening? What is it we’re not seeing?

Waiting to be enlightened. :eyes:

Sorry, I’m here to laugh at you, not enlighten you.

Like this, you mean?

:rofl:

Its scary, when I first heard that laugh, I was worried. Some people have gone down a deep rabbit hole. So deep they might even pull the rest of us down behind them.

Over the last few days when I see a right wing comment on Twitter, usually about how great Brexit is, or f**k the EU and I click on their profile, I see post after post from the anti-vax movement. It's really spreading now.

yeah right. Above and beyond all the dreadful things Trump has done, he has completely undermined respect for facts. The internet and alt-media then amplify that through infinite cascading halls of mirrors. Scarier than plain old-fashioned fascism. Not that Trump has consciously engineered anything, it’s always only impulse and want, but then there’s a billion lonely minds out there who latch on to it. Scary indeed.

If someone still thinks that Trump would do a coup and as the commander in chief and would get the military to do anything, here's the final nail on those kind of fears.

Past veterans day, few days ago, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff general Milley went on a public speech quite openly to remind where the allegiance of the military lies on. Likely he wouldn't have given this kind of speech without the present political situation, but now it perhaps was needed to be clear about this issue.

here's the final nail on those kind of fears. — ssu

If you put a nail into fears, it really hurts and makes more fear.

Perhaps it's fitting, for those Americans who think their own armed forces is their biggest fear will never change their view as the thinking is more of a religious idea: that the American state itself being the enemy. No logical conclusion done by looking at the facts will change that.