• Xtrix
    3.7k
    only to have fresh new reasons why, nonetheless, they must be supported.StreetlightX

    If only Trump were in office...a conservative Supreme Court for 40 years wasn't quite damaging enough. Clinton's picks would have probably been just as bad though...
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    Oh it didn't take long :rofl:

    "Instead of taxing billionaires, we'll put a tax on things that ordinary people use all the time".


    "A NEW VERSION of the Build Back Better Act that the House Rules Committee released Wednesday was amended to protect tax avoidance schemes used by the ultrawealthy in their estate planning. The updated legislation made up the revenue lost by going light on those billionaires by expanding tobacco taxes to additional nicotine products, replacing a tax that was highly progressive with one that is highly regressive."
  • Xtrix
    3.7k
    Divided Democrats Lurch Toward Vote on $1 Trillion Infrastructure Bill

    Looks like the progressives will cave. No surprise. Oops, I mean I'm very surprised -- only Streetlight truly gets it.

    Just more proof that voting against Trump was a stupid choice. :gasp:
  • James Riley
    2.9k
    I'm just having fun and so's he I'm sure. Who gives a shit.Xtrix

    That's a good way to look at it. I outed him so he won't have fun with me any more. :cry: :roll:
  • Manuel
    2.7k


    Well, I suppose this is why we are in philosophy forum, to argue till' we're blue in the face.

    It only gets bad when we start arguing about trees existing or not. We're not there yet.
  • Xtrix
    3.7k
    6 democrats voted against the bill. Kudos to them for standing their ground.
  • Shawn
    12.1k
    Who would have imagined that Keynes was right all along in the US.
  • James Riley
    2.9k
    6 democrats voted against the bill. Kudos to them for standing their ground.Xtrix

    My google fu sucks. Do you know where I can find out who those six were?

    Edit to add: Found it: https://clerk.house.gov/evs/2021/roll368.xml

    And what's this I hear about a $2t tax cut for the rich getting tossed in there?
  • Mr Bee
    463
    Looks like the progressives will cave. No surprise.Xtrix

    That was gonna be the story regardless of how this day went. The progressives have already signaled that they were gonna give up the hostage a few days ago, meaning that Manchin will get to craft the final bill. That dynamic ultimately hasn't changed.

    The thing that annoys me though is how even passing the BBB in the House was a mess. A handful of moderates moved the goalposts last minute (as in literally 3 days ago) and demanded a CBO score which is an impossible ask completely stalling any momentum the Dems had coming out of the Tuesday elections. Somehow Pelosi was able to rein in the SALT people, and the immigration crew, but not the CBO gang, which just tells me that even if the CBO score comes out and the bill was made deficit neutral, the holdouts would find some other excuse not to support the bill.

    I mean I could be wrong, but that's just the impression I get coming out of this. I trust the moderates even less now and having the progressives give up their leverage to these people when they're pulling off dumb stunts like this hurts more than it already does.
  • James Riley
    2.9k
    I mean I could be wrong,Mr Bee

    But you are not wrong.
  • Xtrix
    3.7k
    Democrats Campaigned Against The GOP Tax Law But Are Barely Touching It

    Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Texas), one of the main authors of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, estimated that 95% of the law would remain intact. The 5% of the 2017 law that Democrats are changing encompasses the SALT deduction and changes to the ways corporations are taxed on income earned overseas.
  • Xtrix
    3.7k
    But if Build Back Better fails, then the United States will plainly be incapable of responding to climate change in any organized or systematic way. The U.S. Congress—really, the Senate—will have killed President Bill Clinton’s carbon-reducing BTU tax in 1994, doomed the Kyoto Protocol in 1998, declined to pass Waxman-Markey in 2010, and abandoned Biden’s climate bid in 2021. This final failure will be massively delegitimizing for the United States and for small-d democracy around the world. And because Democrats are likely to lose control of the House and Senate next year, it would resound for years.

    I’ve pretty much given up on this bill even passing, even in its stripped down version. The progressives caved (all but 6), and Manchin will now use inflation as the problem du jour to indefinitely table the bill.

    But figured I’d leave the above as a reminder.
  • Xtrix
    3.7k
    I should do a poll:

    How many think this bill passes- in any form? What percentage?

    I say there’s maybe an 8% chance at this point, and will be so watered down and devoid of anything significant that it’ll be useless even in the miracle situation where it does pass.

    Thoughts?
  • Mr Bee
    463


    I'd say 50/50 depending on whether Manchin is acting in good faith or not. Progressives are gonna cave to whatever he wants like they always have and after today's news, the bill is gonna be watered down even more to fit his demands of narrowing the scope of the bill. Though to be fair, I kind of blame the progressives in part for insisting on doing more for less when leadership wanted to focus on fewer programs, though Manchin and Sinema insisting on an arbitrary lower number forced that as well.
  • Xtrix
    3.7k
    So it looks like the bill is officially dead. What a shocker.

    Recap:

    • “Bipartisan” (terrible) infrastructure bill created in senate, held up by progressive caucus until they were sent the “Build Back Better” reconciliation bill, originally $3.5 trillion.
    • Bill gets stripped down to nearly nothing to appease Manchin and Sinema.
    • Progressives cave.
    • Manchin votes for $7 trillion dollar defense bill.
    • Manchin destroys reconciliation bill, citing the deficit.

    As a reminder: Manchin has received the most money — of any Senator, Republican or Democrat — from the fossil fuel industry.
  • Maw
    2.7k
    Lol
  • Mr Bee
    463


    Yep. Turns out Manchin never wanted anything in the first place if he's gonna close the door on even talks about a bill which meets his remaining demands. He slow walked this for 6 months, while making increasingly more ridiculous demands that were all met, just to come out and kill the bill anyways.

    Really makes me question the point of the Dems winning the Georgia runoffs if what we're gonna get from all this was a bipartisan bill that could've passed anyways.
  • Xtrix
    3.7k
    Really makes me question the point of the Dems winning the Georgia runoffs if what we're gonna get from all this was a bipartisan bill that could've passed anyways.Mr Bee

    I didn't think there was a great chance at the initial bill, but figured it would be watered down and pass. I wasn't expecting nothing whatsoever, honestly. But I'm sure many in the DNC are happy -- they pushed Biden through, and he ended up winning, so now we can have four years of status quo. Still better than Trump, but that's really not saying much. At least Trump energized the left to a degree.

    So much for national politics. Time to get back to the grassroots level anyway. We're probably long out of time, in terms of the climate disaster that's already happening and will inevitably become worse, if not destroy the human species altogether, but there's little else we can do at this point.
  • jgill
    2.3k
    We're probably long out of time, in terms of the climate disaster that's already happening and will inevitably become worse, if not destroy the human species altogether, but there's little else we can do at this point.Xtrix

    Probably, you are correct. Desalinization itself will require huge amounts of dependable energy. I think the human race will adapt. But it won't be pretty.
  • Mr Bee
    463
    So much for national politics. Time to get back to the grassroots level anyway. We're probably long out of time, in terms of the climate disaster that's already happening and will inevitably become worse, if not destroy the human species altogether, but there's little else we can do at this point.Xtrix

    Honestly I have more faith that Elon Musk will come in and save the day and I wish I were joking.

    I think the human race will adapt. But it won't be pretty.jgill

    And I'm sure that politicians like Joe Manchin will be there to block any such efforts when that happens.
  • Xtrix
    3.7k
    Honestly I have more faith that Elon Musk will come in and save the day and I wish I were joking.Mr Bee

    Nah, He’ll be there with the rest of the congregation of the church of capitalism saying nice words and completely undermining every real effort to change anything.

    Fuck Elon Musk.
  • Wayfarer
    16.3k
    "On Tuesday of this week, Senator Manchin came to the White House and submitted -- to the President, in person, directly -- a written outline for a Build Back Better bill that was the same size and scope as the President's framework, and covered many of the same priorities," White House press secretary Jen Psaki wrote in the statement. "While that framework was missing key priorities, we believed it could lead to a compromise acceptable to all."

    According to Psaki, Manchin "promised to continue conversations in the days ahead, and to work with us to reach that common ground."

    "If his comments on FOX and written statement indicate an end to that effort, they represent a sudden and inexplicable reversal in his position, and a breach of his commitments to the President and the Senator's colleagues in the House and Senate," Psaki said.
    — CNN

    He seems like a double agent. If Trump’s a RINO, Manchin’s a DINO.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    *yawn*. Manchin is just the bad guy of the week. The democrats exist to block left momentum and their not getting anything done is a feature, not a bug. Manchin is to the Democrats what Russia is to liberals in general - an excuse and a scapegoat to not recognize that the entire apparatus is rotten through and through.
  • ssu
    6k
    The few rare times I agree with @StreetlightX.

    But of course, if you print so much money, you will get inflation. And finally that has happened. Inflation. Finally, MMT doesn't look so smart now. And old school economics is looking to be correct (again).

    (is it off to the races here?)
    _121512407_optimised-us.inflation-nc.png

    All-in money printing totaled $13 trillion: $5.2 for COVID + $4.5 for quantitative easing + $3 for infrastructure. Mountains of money cause inflation

    More than the spending on WW2 by the US in todays dollars. The Fed has gone down the rabbit hole where there's no turning back. 40% of dollars now created out of thin air in the last year and a half.

    I think there is brewing a real economic and monetary crisis here. Good luck if you can hold on to your wealth (if you have any) as the next 10-15 can be hard.
  • Xtrix
    3.7k
    But of course, if you print so much money, you will get inflation.ssu

    That’s not why we have inflation. We have inflation because of the supply chain. The Fed has been printing money galore since 2009.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    I think there is brewing a real economic and monetary crisis here.ssu

    There is no 'brewing' economic and monetary crisis. The world economy has been in crisis for more than a decade now. It's only 'brewing' for those who are comfortable and benefiting from the misery of those who have been in unending crisis for years. 'Brewing' just means: it's finally going effect those who haven't deigned to look down in some time.
  • Maw
    2.7k
    But of course, if you print so much money, you will get inflation. And finally that has happened. Inflation.ssu

    Holy fuck batten down the hatches inflation has hit everyone. Inflation. The dreaded "I-word". I'm crying and screaming. Inflation. I'm in fetal position and shitting my pants. Inflation. I'm calling my mom and telling her I love her. Inflation. The car's on fire and there's no driver at the wheel and the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides. Inflation. And a dark wind blows. Inflation. The government is corrupt. Inflation. And we're on so many drugs. Inflation. With the radio on and the curtains drawn. Inflation. We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine and the machine is bleeding to death. Inflation. The sun has fallen down and the billboards are all leering and the flags are all dead at the top of their poles. Inflation. It went like this: Inflation. The buildings tumbled in on themselves. Inflation. Mothers clutching babies picked through the rubble and pulled out their hair. Inflation. The skyline was beautiful on fire. Inflation. All twisted metal stretching upwards. Inflation. Everything washed in a thin orange haze. Inflation. I said: "kiss me, you're beautiful - These are truly the last days of not inflation" You grabbed my hand and we fell into it like a daydream or a fever. Inflation. We woke up one morning and fell a little further down - For sure it's the valley of death I open up my wallet and it's full of blood because of inflation.
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