Very beautiful song - and a wonderful voice.

I don't see how we can reclaim spirituality from the New Age aspects the word has acquired. Having said that, anyone can use the word.

If we had no such thing as music or books, or plays and colors and tastes, well then, life would be indeed be a waste.

So there's hope in that, as you say. :)

For me, she's the epitome of courage. :fire:

For me, hope is what remains at the end, when all previous reason has lost its vigour, its value, its authority. A pure desire to find meanings once lost. — Benj96

Interesting point of view. It reminds me of the Pandora's Box myth where Hope is left behind after other blessings or curses have flown out (depending on interpretation).

Pandora opened a jar left in her care containing sickness, death and many other unspecified evils which were then released into the world. Though she hastened to close the container, only one thing was left behind – usually translated as Hope, though it could also have the pessimistic meaning of "deceptive expectation".
[...]
In a major departure from Hesiod, the 6th-century BC Greek elegiac poet Theognis of Megara states that

Hope is the only good god remaining among mankind;
the others have left and gone to Olympus.
Trust, a mighty god has gone, Restraint has gone from men,
and the Graces, my friend, have abandoned the earth.
Men's judicial oaths are no longer to be trusted, nor does anyone
revere the immortal gods; the race of pious men has perished and
men no longer recognize the rules of conduct or acts of piety.[15]

[...]
It is also argued that hope was simply one of the evils in the jar, the false kind of hope, and was no good for humanity, since, later in the poem, Hesiod writes that hope is empty (498) and no good (500) and makes humanity lazy by taking away their industriousness, making them prone to evil.[29] — Wiki - Pandora's box

Some might say having hope in a hopeless place is the greatest of all irrationalities, a pointless, fruitless effort, that one ought to give up hope, but if its all they have left what would they have after that? Nothing. Non existence. Submittal to death. Oblivion. — Benj96

Indeed. If we are to take a 'hopeless place' as being of significant suffering e.g. unjustly being held and tortured in a prison, then for sure some might despair while others are hopeful.
In the excellent article I linked to earlier, Chignell uses the example of the film The Shawshank Redemption's characters Andy and Red to illustrate his theory:

https://academic.oup.com/pq/advance-article/doi/10.1093/pq/pqac010/6582893
Abstract
Most elpistologists now agree that hope for a specific outcome involves more than just desire plus the presupposition that the outcome is possible. This paper argues that the additional element of hope is a disposition to focus on the desired outcome in a certain way. I first survey the debate about the nature of hope in the recent literature, offer objections to some important competing accounts, and describe and defend the view that hope involves a kind of focus or attention. I then suggest that this account makes sense of the intuitive thought that there are moral and pragmatic norms on hope that go beyond the norms on desires and modal presuppositions. I conclude by considering some key questions.

[...]

Andy desires to be free and believes it's just barely possible. But he is also disposed to attend to the imagined escape as possible. Red desires freedom to the same degree, and takes it to be possible in just the same way. But he is disposed to focus on the outcome in a different way—under the aspect of its improbability. We hear this difference in the way they intone the same proposition:

Andy: ‘It's just a one-in-a-million chance, but IT’S POSSIBLE!’

Red: ‘It's possible, but it's JUST A ONE-IN-A-MILLION CHANCE!’

— Focus Theory of Hope - Andrew Chignell — Amity

And hope I would imagine is a constant we ought not to undervalue, as losing it only brings forth utter despair. — Benj96

Yes, because nothing much seems to have changed since the days of the 6th-century BC Greek elegiac poet Theognis of Megara!

I'll end with this from wiki:

A less pessimistic interpretation understands the myth to say: countless evils fled Pandora's jar and plague human existence; the hope that humanity might be able to master these evils remains imprisoned inside the jar.
Life is not hopeless, but human beings are hopelessly human.

Interesting point of view. It reminds me of the Pandora's Box myth where Hope is left behind after other blessings or curses have flown out (depending on interpretation). — Amity

Haha yes! It crossed my mind also as I was witting it. Your extracts that you cited are very apt in regard to this discussion.

If we had no such thing as music or books, or plays and colors and tastes, well then, life would be indeed be a waste. — Manuel

Your words made me think of those suffering from different types of sensory disabilities affecting sight, hearing, smell, touch, taste or spatial awareness.

As 95% of the information about the world around us comes from our sight and hearing, a sensory disability can affect how a person gathers information from the world around them.
[...]
The effects of autism are wide ranging and can include difficulties in social interaction and communication, restricted and repetitive interests and behaviours, and sensitivity to sensory experiences – noise, light, touch etc. As autism can be very variable, the word ‘spectrum’ describes the range of difficulties that someone with autism may experience. — Aruma - Types of sensory disabilities

Life might be more limiting and challenging without the arts and sensual experiences but can we ever say that it is a waste? I think not. It is thanks to those who care; hold pragmatic hope and take action that life can be improved.

Thanks for joining in; much appreciated :up:

For me, she's the epitome of courage — 180 Proof

Absolutely. I didn't follow up on all your quotes but this being the first...it struck me with force.
You have a way of picking out from your catalogue of music, books, quotes - gems of joy and more.

Your choice is never random; it is exactly what is needed and fitting. I think you must know your storage system inside out! Where and when did you find the story of Emma Goldman?

but can we ever say that it is a waste? I think not. It is thanks to those who care; hold pragmatic hope and take action that life can be improved. — Amity

Not a waste per se. But comparatively less rich for some people.

But in cases of sensory deprivation, there is hope as our experience of the world is tremendously rich.

I mean, if we do permanently lose the faculties that allows for consciousness, that is a case of a life that's over, for all practical purposes.

I mean, if we do permanently lose the faculties that allows for consciousness, that is a case of a life that's over, for all practical purposes. — Manuel

Permanent loss of consciousness would be brain death. And so, yes, life over.

However, are you talking about a persistent vegetative state or being in a coma? Someone being kept on life support...do they and their friends and family hold on to hope?
Yes, I think so. To some extent.
That of course will be influenced by information given to them by the medical team
Or perhaps other counsellors, including the religious.
I think the problem then, like any health issue, relates to false hopes being raised.
A difficult time for all concerned.
In the case of a terminal illness, prayers or hopes can change to that of a speedy and painless release.

Thanks for joining in; much appreciated :up: — Amity

Any time Amity :) ill be sure to come back with more musings.

How do you demonstrate it?
— Amity
In a myriad of ways, like those exemplars I just mentioned above. But such examples can also include, authoring a thread about hope on a philosophy website. — universeness

Hah. Yes. In starting any exploratory thread, we hope for the best and prepare for the worst!
I'm glad that there have been so many helpful and thoughtful contributions and interactions.
I never know where it will lead or what I will learn. It can be fascinating...

I wonder if love/desire ( or even hate) is necessary before any hope can take place.
— Amity

I think it's hope that is fundamental. Why breathe or eat or drink, why not just stop and die? We hope that the next moment will be ok, that's why. — universeness

But isn't it the desire to survive that is the driver? The love of self and others. That is what leads to hope in every kind of way...insignificant, moderate, and highly significant. And yes, hope is what keeps us moving on. Hmm. Perhaps desire is both hope and love depending on degree and duration.

From the article I linked to:

Note, further, that the same outcome can be the object of banal, insignificant hope for some people, moderately significant hope for others, and apex-level, life-structuring hope for still others. For example, the sentence

I hope that it will not rain tomorrow

uttered by you while planning a picnic expresses a banal hope. Uttered by me when the betrothed at an outdoor wedding, it expresses a quite significant hope. Uttered by residents of the community on the banks of a raging, overflowing river, the sentence expresses a still more significant hope. The significance, again, is partly a function of how invested the hoper is in the outcome. This explains why significant hopes are typically accompanied by intensity of speratic feeling.

Another and very different way in which we speak of hope refers not to an episodic state but to a broad existential stance: an anticipatory openness to or embrace of an indeterminate range of possible futures. Cheshire Calhoun describes such basal hope as ‘the phenomenological idea of the future’ (2018: 74). Basal hope has no specific object, does not involve a disposition to have discrete mental episodes, and is not typically under our control. Authors ranging from Calhoun to the Christian existentialist Gabriel Marcel to the Jewish Marxist Ernst Bloch have depicted basal hope as an essential element of finite agency.5

***

Carl made many, many, many hope filled statements, such as:
"We embarked on our journey to the stars with a question first framed in the childhood of our species and in each generation, asked anew, with undiminished wonder: What are the stars? Exploration is in our nature. We began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still. We have lingered long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to set sail for the stars."

"Better by far to embrace the hard truth, than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal." — universeness

Thanks for the quote.
So, undiminished life wonder with hope to find some answers to our questions along the way.
To satisfy our wonderlust...and tell our stories...thanks for sharing yours :sparkle:

OK. Look forward in hope :cool:

What I didn't understand was how it was unnecessary. Emotions are part of who we are.
We are not necessarily 'attached' to hope or fear. Perhaps it is a fear or anxiety related to a potential consequence (success/failure) of entertaining hope that causes some to deny they have any. — Amity

I just came across this, that says more clearly what I was failing to say very well:

A mind that is indifferent, is aware of the shoddiness of our civilization, the shoddiness of our thought, the ugly relationships; it is aware of the street, of the beauty of a tree, or of a lovely face, a smile; and it neither denies it nor accepts it, but merely observes - not intellectually, not coldly, but with that warm affectionate indifference. Observation is not detachment, because there is no attachment. It is only when the mind is attached - to your house, to the family, to some job - , that you talk about detachment. But, you know, when you are indifferent, there is a sweetness to it, there is a perfume to it, there is a quality of tremendous energy - this may not be the meaning of that word in the dictionary. One has to be indifferent - to health, to loneliness, to what people say or do not say; indifferent whether you succeed or do not succeed; indifferent to authority.

Now, if you observe, you hear somebody is shooting, making a lot of noise with a gun. You can very easily get used to it; probably you have already got used to it, and you turn a deaf ear - that is not indifference. Indifference comes into being when you listen to that noise with no resistance, go with that noise, ride on that noise infinitely. Then that noise does not affect you, does not pervert you, does not make you indifferent. Then you listen to every noise in the world - the noise of your children, of your wife, of the birds, the noise of the chatter the politicians make - , you listen to it completely with indifference and therefore with understanding. — J.Krishnamurti

Public Talk 6 Bombay (Mumbai), India - 07 March 1962

What is it that you think 'hope' is that means you feel you have to stop doing or eliminate it? — Amity

Part of it is what unenlightened wrote:

One projects oneself into the future, and identifies with the imagined future self. Thus hope and fear arise together as acts of imagination - one fears the worst and hopes for the best. — unenlightened

And part of it is that I experience them in similar manners. They both feel like intrusions, weaknesses, distractions; causing me to pay attention to the wrong things.

Thank you for the quote and reference. I read the whole talk and I really don't know how to respond.
It starts off:

I want to go this evening into the question of death. I would like to talk about it as age and maturity, time and negation, which is love. — Krishnamurti - talk 6 - Bombay 1962

There is much about this I query but will focus on the term 'indifference'.
At first, I thought the 'indifference' referred to was similar to the Stoic concept but I don't think that is the case. A brief look:

Of all the loaded words in Stoic philosophy, “indifferent” is one of the most provocative. Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, and Epictetus each tell us that the Stoic is indifferent to external things, indifferent to wealth, indifferent to pain, indifferent to winning, indifferent to hope and dreams and everything else.
[...]
The point was to be strong enough that there wasn’t a need to need things to go in a particular direction. Seneca for his part would say that obviously it’s better to be rich than poor, tall than short, but the Stoic was indifferent when fate actually dealt out its hand on the matter. Because the Stoic was strong enough to make good of it—whatever it was. — Daily stoic - indifference

[my emphasis]

Again, I note the 'indifference' to hope.

***
Now, from Krishnamurti's public talk, following on from your quote:

A mind that would understand time and continuity, must be indifferent to time and not seek to fill that space which you call time with amusement, with worship, with noise, with reading, with going to the film, by every means that you are doing now. And by filling it with thought, with action, with amusement, with excitement, with drink, with woman, with man, with God, with your knowledge, you have given it continuity; and so, you will never know what it is to die.
[...]
If you have cut everything around you, every psychological root hope, despair, guilt, anxiety, success, attachment - , then out of this operation, this denial of this whole structure of society, not knowing what will happen to you when you are operating completely, out of this total denial, there is the energy to face that which you call death. The very dying to everything that you have known, deliberately to cut away everything that you have known, is dying. You try it some time - not as a conscious, deliberate, virtuous act to find out - , just try it, play with it; for you learn more out of play than out of deliberate conscious effort. When you so deny, you have destroyed; and you must destroy; for, surely, out of destruction purity can come - an unspotted mind. — Krishnamurti - Public talk 6 Bombay 1962

[my emphasis]

It seems that we will never know what it is to die, unless we deny continuity and the whole structure of society. But this 'dying' to everything we have known, is dying? We must destroy because from destruction comes purity - an unspotted mind.

We have to be 'indifferent' to time and not seek to fill it with anything resembling everyday human life, is that right? To what end? A pure blank mind?
Why would we want that? There seems to be an attachment to the destruction of thought.
'What is it to die' is a question that cannot be thought of? Then how come the talk? A mind spotted...

I'm not sure I can reassure you that my understanding has improved.
Ironically, the talk filled my time in reading and thinking...perhaps I should have let it go :chin:

One projects oneself into the future, and identifies with the imagined future self. Thus hope and fear arise together as acts of imagination - one fears the worst and hopes for the best.
— unenlightened

And part of it is that I experience them in similar manners. They both feel like intrusions, weaknesses, distractions; causing me to pay attention to the wrong things. — T Clark

Thanks for your response. I will have to consider this later. Tired now. :yawn:

Thanks. My memory is pretty good but often I confiirm quotes, etc with Google rather than pulling books or whatever from my stacks. A lifetime of study and immersing myself in the arts have lacerated me deeply with interesting trivia and topical quotations. It's been decades, for instance, since I'd read Emma Goldman's Living My Life or studied Nietzsche works and yet the right context inspires their voices to return to me and meet the moment (e.g. your thoughtful OP). Anyway, glad you appreciate the references.

What is it that you think 'hope' is that means you feel you have to stop doing or eliminate it?
— Amity

Part of it is what unenlightened wrote:

One projects oneself into the future, and identifies with the imagined future self. Thus hope and fear arise together as acts of imagination - one fears the worst and hopes for the best.
— unenlightened

And part of it is that I experience them in similar manners. They both feel like intrusions, weaknesses, distractions; causing me to pay attention to the wrong things. — T Clark

The first part of my question was:
What is it that you think 'hope' is?
I've had a look at wordhippo:

Noun
A belief or wish that something either can or will happen
The possibility or likelihood of some future event occurring
A feeling of optimism
A person or thing that is a source of hope
A strong desire
A (possible) course of action that is resorted to
A cheerful and optimistic attitude or disposition
Long and careful consideration or thought
Reliance on someone or something for financial support
The potential for achievement or excellence
An unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme
The capacity of people to maintain belief in an institution or a goal, or even in oneself and others
The use of a word or phrase to refer to something that it isn’t, invoking a direct similarity between the word or phrase used and the thing described
Fantasy view of situation
A solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or another deity
The action of giving someone support, confidence, or hope
An action or task to be performed

Verb
To expectantly want something to happen
To intend to do something
To have a strong want or desire
To depend on with full trust or confidence
To try subtly or deviously to elicit a response or some information from someone
— wordhippo - another word for hope

***
Also, in an earlier reply to @Jack Cummins:
I wonder what those most critical of hope would say about the opposite state. That of living a life of 'hopelessness'. It seems some see hope as a positive virtue, others not so much.

Previously I used the word 'despair' as the opposite of hope. Turns out there are more d-words.

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/hopelessness.html

Context:
The loss of hope or confidence [*]
Ineptitude or a lack of competence
Pointlessness or uselessness
A state of disapproval or feeling of unfulfillment
The state or quality of being impractical — wordhippo - hopelessness

[*] D-words in addition to 'despair' include:
depression, dejection, despondence, downheartedness, defeatism, desolation.
***

To return to your post or position as to your experience ( of both hope and fear)

...feel like intrusions, weaknesses, distractions; causing me to pay attention to the wrong things.

I appreciate that as a response to my OP question:

What is your experience of hope as a feeling, action or philosophical concept? — Amity

But I have still to improve my understanding. Do you only see hope as a negative feeling?

How is hope - or hoping - an intrusion/weakness or distraction?
What does 'weakness' mean here?
How does hope act to result in, or lead to, a position whereby attention is paid to the wrong things?
What are the wrong things?

So many questions, so little time. There's more to come. Later...
Thanks to all for engaging :sparkle:

I hope that it will not rain tomorrow

uttered by you while planning a picnic expresses a banal hope. Uttered by me when the betrothed at an outdoor wedding, it expresses a quite significant hope. Uttered by residents of the community on the banks of a raging, overflowing river, the sentence expresses a still more significant hope. The significance, again, is partly a function of how invested the hoper is in the outcome. This explains why significant hopes are typically accompanied by intensity of speratic feeling.

Don't forget, hope as essential as it is, can be conflicting. Many a farmer may conflict with the hope mentioned above. I personally love to walk in the rain. How welcome is the rain when it's been too hot.
How justified might it be to utter a hope such as 'I hope I die.' Or 'I hope your die.'
If I am suffering beyond help, then my hope for death is warranted. My hope for the death of another is also warranted if they are my constant abuser.
This is one of the most interesting parts of the human experience, when hopes clash!
The hopes of the many, the hopes of the few or the hopes of the one.

This is one of the most interesting parts of the human experience, when hopes clash!
The hopes of the many, the hopes of the few or the hopes of the one. — universeness

Yes. 'Interesting' to say the least!
There's so much to this topic. I've been turning my attention to other perspectives.
Related to health in particular - our experience of covid and more.
Talk again later :cool:

In the meantime, I'll leave this here:
https://aeon.co/essays/true-hope-takes-a-hard-look-at-reality-then-makes-a-plan

Likewise, the scientists who valiantly struggle to end the COVID-19 pandemic or the patients with cancer who choose to undergo treatments with painful side-effects know the road will be hard, but they push forward because they’ve found goals worth keeping their ‘hands on the throttle’ for. That’s the source of their hope.

Hope, at its heart, is a perception. Unlike most perceptions, however, this one has the possibility of creating reality. Most of the time, we think of reality as creating our perceptions. Look around you right now and notice the objects in your environment. They all exist in reality before you perceive them. But hope is a special kind of perception: it’s a perception of something that doesn’t yet exist. It’s a perception of what is possible. — Aeon essay - True hope

The idea of despair and hope is also related to the experience of depression and suicidality. I have experienced depression at times and have nursed people who were suicidal or had made suicide attempts. To some extent depression and suicidal ideas may be seen as a chemical aspect of fear, negativity and loss of hope. Antidepressants may be prescribed and in some people bring about a chemical restart of hope. But, it may not be that simple, involving life experiences and the existential aspect of despair.

Some of the literature on depression and despair is interesting, especially with the different models ranging from the psychological to the existential. Camus's 'The Myth of Sisyphus', is one interesting depiction of existential despair and Alvarez's, 'The Savage God' looks at the experience of despair and suicidality in literature. There is so much within the field of psychology. One aspect which may be important in psychiatry is the nature of bipolar mood disorders. While some there may be a biochemical component it does also involve such swings from complete hopelessness to a sense of exaggerated or inflated sense of optimism. The two poles of pessimism vs optimism go to the extremes.

One discussion which is also important is from James Hillman in, 'Suicide and the Soul'. What he argued is that the extreme state of suicidal despair, while being a sense of wishing for an end but it often may encompass a wish for transformation. The interplay between hopelessness and the wish for transformation has also been explored by Thomas More in his, 'The Dark Night of the Soul', which looks at the twilight state of despair and its navigation in relation to transformational states, which links the whole encounter with the symbolic demons of despair to the angels of hope and how these are experienced in human experiences.
.

How is hope - or hoping - an intrusion/weakness or distraction? — Amity

That's how I experience it, how it feels to me. If we're looking for an explanation of that, I think what @unenlightened wrote is a good one.

OK.
Do you mean the Krishnamurti talk?

The idea of despair and hope is also related to the experience of depression and suicidality. I have experienced depression at times and have nursed people who were suicidal or had made suicide attempts. To some extent depression and suicidal ideas may be seen as a chemical aspect of fear, negativity and loss of hope. Antidepressants may be prescribed and in some people bring about a chemical restart of hope. But, it may not be that simple, involving life experiences and the existential aspect of despair. — Jack Cummins

Yes. Grateful for all your thoughts and personal insights.

There is so much within the field of psychology — Jack Cummins

Yes, psychology seems to have a higher profile/interest in this aspect of human life than does philosophy.
I don't intend to spend much more time in this discussion. However, just for balance here's an article examining the downside to hope:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolution-the-self/201807/7-downsides-hope

The interplay between hopelessness and the wish for transformation has also been explored by Thomas More in his, 'The Dark Night of the Soul', which looks at the twilight state of despair and its navigation in relation to transformational states, which links the whole encounter with the symbolic demons of despair to the angels of hope and how these are experienced in human experiences. — Jack Cummins

That sounds fascinating. Although I'm not sure about the extremes of demonising despair or the angelic aspect of hope. Does the book suggest this?

I doubt I will get round to reading all your reading suggestions but someone else might :sparkle:

I like W.H. Auden because he approaches the question through our incapacity. The poem Villanelle:

Time can say nothing but I told you so,
Time only knows the price we have to pay;
If I could tell you, I would let you know.
If we should weep when clowns put on their show,
If we should stumble when musicians play,
Time can say nothing but I told you so.
There are no fortunes to be told, although
Because I love you more than I can say,
If I could tell you, I would let you know.
The winds must come from somewhere when they blow,
There must be reasons why the leaves decay;
Time can say nothing but I told you so.
Perhaps the roses really want to grow,
The vision seriously intends to stay;
If I could tell you, I would let you know.
Suppose the lions all get up and go,
And all the brooks and soldiers run away?
Time can say nothing but I told you so.
If I could tell you, I would let you know.

This is different from the confidence of the Tao Te Ching passage or accepting a ground based upon psychological factors. Wanting to talk about it is alive and uncertain. A final word is a kind of despair.

Excerpt from an old post (sans 'psychologism' creeping up in this thread)

The pessimistic stance, which Does Not Entail 'miserabilism' 'cynicism' or 'futilism', cultivates courage – sing the blues and dance! – at the expense of hope (to wit: “There is an infinite amount of hope in the universe ... but not for us.” ~Franz Kafka) — 180 Proof

Thank you for the poem. Another day, another new experience :sparkle:

This is different from the confidence of the Tao Te Ching passage or accepting a ground based upon psychological factors. Wanting to talk about it is alive and uncertain. A final word is a kind of despair. — Paine

Not sure what you mean by the 'confidence' of the TTC verse. Do you mean there is a sense of absolute certainty; almost a dogmatic statement and attitude? A 'final word' as to the right way of looking at the world and how to live?

I like W.H. Auden because he approaches the question through our incapacity. — Paine

The question of what? Hope, life, love - the passing of time revealing all? How we can't tell what the consequences of our thought, feeling, and actions will be? The reason for the season?

Where do psychological factors enter the picture as a basis for acceptance/rejection of hope?
There are 'none so blind as those who will not see'?

Perhaps some poetry is better than others in helping us see - by opening up different perspectives.

Time can say nothing but I told you so,
Time only knows the price we have to pay;
If I could tell you, I would let you know.

Some people can't handle life's uncertainties; they need some form of an absolute answer to live by.
But having this kind of certainty or finality - does it help?
Or is it as you say - a kind of despair not recognised?

Excerpt from an old post (sans 'psychologism' creeping up in this thread)
The pessimistic stance, which Does Not Entail 'miserabilism' 'cynicism' or 'futilism', cultivates courage – sing the blues and dance! – at the expense of hope (to wit: “There is an infinite amount of hope in the universe ... but not for us.” ~Franz Kafka)
— 180 Proof — 180 Proof

Never sure what 'psychologism' means.
: a tendency to interpret events or arguments in subjective terms, or to exaggerate the relevance of psychological factors.

If someone interprets the case for or against 'hope' in subjective terms, what is wrong with that?
Perhaps a focus on the negative 'feeling' of hope is somewhat narrow. The apparent avoidance of a broader view is unfortunate but there is no need/desire to delve deep into someone's psyche.
However, isn't philosophy about persuasion to look and think again - by encouraging a clear thinking process?
This includes questions about resulting actions/behaviour; any implications of seeing hope as hollow.

***

How does a pessimistic stance cultivate courage?
Do you mean that someone who detects life's problems is more likely to act and change what is wrong?
That can take courage if they speak out against the status quo.
Why would this be 'at the expense of hope'?

The TTC verse points to a way to avoid the risky nature of 'going up and down the ladder'. Love of persons takes that risk. A lover will always be a day late and a dollar short, wanting to tell the future in a country bereft of oracles or instructions. Taking the risk does not accept the uncertainty with resigned patience. We would go past the boundaries if we could.

The desire to trespass shapes the discovery of what the boundaries are. The utility of strictly psychological maps benefits from the TTC perspective of: "When you stand with your two feet on the ground." There is a tension between the views that will never be resolved. But one can see that Auden is less absolute about the difference than, say, John Donne, for example. Donne says:

Dull sublunary lovers' love
(Whose soul is sense) cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
Those things which elemented it.

But we, by a love so much refined
That our selves know not what it is,
Inter-assured of the mind,
Care less, eyes, lips, and hands to miss. — A Valediction Forbidding Mourning

In Auden's country, that is a claim we cannot make.