Comey insinuated in one of his congressional hearings that he wanted to go back to academia (suggesting disgust with politics). Maybe he's glad to be fired.

Rosenstein (who is not known to be a political hack) is the 'dupe'. Sessions had recused himself from the Russian investigation. In order for the reasons for firing Comey to officially come from Department of Justice Trump/Sessions needed someone to compose the it, so he could just sign off it and his deputy's recommendation fit the bill.

https://youtu.be/-UNDuAPMAuw do you think he's saying this ironically?

I myself am more inclined to believe that Trump was just his usual impulsive, irritable, vindictive, bloody-minded, incompetent self. — SophistiCat

The real thing is his lack of judgement and ignorance in this case.

So his enterprises went bankrupt and he couldn't get financing from the US, so he instead turned to Russian money and that's how his relationship started. Of course as oligarch-money in Russia is directly connected to the Kremlin, that's how the the Russian twist took off.

Where Trump had the biggest lack of judgement is the cavalier way he approach this "help from friends", saying great things about Putin, even having his "sarcasm" moment of directly asking Russia to interfere with the US elections. He likely thought it as a win-win situation: that he would get support for his campaign and later he could have a diplomatic successes by improving the relations with Russia. His absolute ignorance of the facts and what it means to be the sole Superpower obviously didn't get to him during the election. (Now with picking Mattis etc.and replacing the disasterous Flynn with McMaster the actual Trump foreign & security policy is back to normal)

Because of Putin would be your average US billionaire, a Brother Koch, and Fancy & Cozy Bears just the usual nasty Superpacs & lobbying groups, nothing new under the sun. But because it a foreign intelligence services active in the whole broad operation, that By default made the FBI to react to this as it is it's primary missions is to thwart such operations done by a foreign intelligence service.

People should just use Occam's razor here as what is obvious is obvious.

Any kind of wrongdoing by either side will be naturally politically used in the vitriolic atmosphere of US politics. But then to assume that the wrongdoing is totally fake, a huge conspiracy theory, isn't stupid.

Amongst the many dispiriting and depressing things about Trump is the amount of air-time and column inches are devoted to stories about things he's said/done/got wrong/made up/stuffed up. You would expect, if an executive were the least bit competent, that the story would not be about him or her, but about the various things happening as a consequence of their actions. Here, Trump *is* the story, and he's the story, because he keeps cocking things up, over and over and over again, meanwhile blaming everyone around him for it. It's got the point where his official lapdogs, er, spokespersons, are saying they can't be blamed for not being able to read his mind ('"it is not possible for my surrogates to stand at the podium with perfect accuracy." ) Impossible, when he himself doesn't know what is about to come out of his mouth in the next tweet (or bleet).

The Democrats were predicting from November 9 onward that Trump would be impeached for something. Firing the FBI director was probably petty and maybe ill-advised, don't know, but it doesn't sound like an impeachable action to me. The Director wasn't conducting the investigation into the Russian/Trump connection. That was/is being conducted by investigators a ways down in the power structure.

The foundation of Nixon's demise was the break-in at the DNC. He might have gotten impeached for that, don't know. But what really cooked his goose was the prolonged and elaborate cover-up which sucked the sinner ever deeper into sin and involved more and more people.

Trump is appallingly unpresidential, but we knew he was going to be that way on November 9. The man is a slob, but being a slob isn't illegal. He might get smarter, or he might get worse. Time will tell.

Yeah; but, let us not be naive and assume the money came with no strings attached, from the Russian oligarchy.

They won't impeach. The Republican party has shown utterly craven and contemptible disregard for Trump's obvious incompetence, because he won the election (or because the democrats inexcusably allowed it to be lost). And for that same reason, he could drag them, and America, and indeed the whole world, over a cliff, and they would be standing around in the Rose Garden congratulating each other on what a swell job they're all doing.

(All that said, I too believe that the Trump campaign's Russian links story might well be a beat up, but we ought not to forget, Flynn took large sums from Russian media outlets, and the "hacking stories" definitely have some basis to them. Not to mention all of Trump's craven glad-handling of Putin in the lead up to the election.)

Yeah; but, let us not be naive and assume the money came with no strings attached, from the Russian oligarchy. — Question

Well, that was the way basically referring to, that's how the Russian did get him... recruited.

And likely there is the money trail.

With Carter Page (Trump's liaison to Moscow?) and the Rosneft deal, where it is not know who just bought a major share in the Russian Company.

Page took his controversial trip to Moscow, it alleged, to meet with Rosneft's CEO, Igor Sechin. There, Page was offered the brokerage of a 19% stake in Rosneft in exchange for the lifting of US sanctions on Russia, but was noncommittal, according to the dossier.

On December 7, Rosneft signed a deal to sell 19.5% of shares, or roughly $11 billion, to the multinational commodity trader Glencore Plc and Qatar's state-owned wealth fund. Qatar's sovereign wealth fund is Glencore's largest shareholder. Page was back in Moscow on December 8 to "meet with some of the top managers" of Rosneft, he told reporters at the time. He denied meeting with Sechin, Rosneft's CEO, during that trip, but said it would have been "a great honor" if he had.

The FBI reportedly used the dossier's raw intelligence about Page to bolster its case for the FISA order, according to CNN, indicating that the bureau had enough confidence in the validity of the document to corroborate it and present it in court.

"In my long experience in dealing with FISA processing, unconfirmed information about a potential target cannot (and has not been) included in the application‎," said John Rizzo, the former acting general counsel of the CIA.

"So, if the CNN report is accurate, then I have to believe that the FBI and Department of Justice concluded (and the Court agreed) that the info in the dossier about Page was reliable."

See The wild and confusing saga of the Trump adviser at the center of the Russia controversy

If that came out... likely grounds for Treason. With an additional case for obstruction of justice for firing Comey in order for "the Russia investigation to go away".

And then of course, there is the trail of dead & arrested Russians... which give credibility to the Steele dossier.

Interesting to see what kind of case the FBI makes out of this:

At least four U.S. intel assets in Russia have been arrested by Russian authorities, and at least one key U.S. intel asset has been found dead in the back of a car. But the identity of the dead man, and his business relationship with Donald Trump and his advisors, takes the scandal to a stunning new level.The man found dead is Oleg Erovinkin, the former KGB and FSB intelligence agent who secretly fed information about Donald Trump to MI6 agent Christopher Steele in what what has ultimately become popularly known as the “Russian pee pee” scandal due to the involvement of Trump and lewd acts with prostitutes. The Telegraph says he was found dead in the back of a car and that foul play is suspected. But what may be more alarming is what Erovinkin was doing for a living after he retired from the Russian FSB.

Erovinkin was the right hand man of former Russian deputy prime minister Igor Sechin, and he followed Sechin into the private sector. Sechin went on to become the head of Russian oil company Rosneft, where Erovinkin also became an exec. According to the MI6 report which was put together with Erovinkin’s help, Rosneft offered to sell a 19% share of itself to Carter Page, who was a top Donald Trump campaign advisor at the time. It was a sweetheart deal which was understood to be in exchange for Trump lifting any sanctions on Russia if he won the election and took office.

See Russian oil exec found dead after caught bribing Donald Trump to lift U.S. sanctions

So, you're on the side that thinks Trump and Russia are related somehow?

What I find surprising is that these ties didn't come out during a vetting process of potential candidates for the office?

Well, the goose seems to be cooked. Wonder how it gets served by the FBI or other intelligence agencies.

Man, I really hope Trump gets served hard. When I was watching him still campaign, I told my mom that they'd catch him on his prostitute hobby doing cocaine in some hotel in Miami. The above, provided by ssu, makes that look like peanuts.

"I remember a few months ago a member of this forum talking about how there has been collusion between the US and Russia even during the cold war..."

swstephe. It was swstephe. Where has swstephe gone!?

I think his absence is a sign of protest. It started when Trump became Prez.

People are beginning to drop the R and I words on a daily basis it seems (resignation and impeachment)...

Even before Trump and Hillary won their respective nominations, I figured that Trump was the only hope for Hillary to actually get herself elected...

I wanted Trump to win though, because I predicted that if he did win then it would only be so long before his entire administration comes crashing down under the weight of his ridiculousness..

Remember how ridiculous the campaign was? Well it's gotten steadily more ridiculous, and this is not sustainable :)

My long term hope was that if America can actually impeach Trump or shame him into resignation that the next time around people people will be so fed up with the circus that actual reform have get a chance to get off the ground.

There's a revealing article in the NY Times today, about how the 'conservative media'/Trump supporters are depicting Trump's problems. According to them, and him, the whole problem is the 'deep state' which is defending itself against Trump's vision for 'making America great again' by leaking and undermining at every point. Backed by the big money of liberal donors like Jeff Bezos, who owns the Washington Post, and various un-named moles in the State Department and other agencies, all of Trump's problems are simply being spun into existence by the dirty liberals.

Sitting on the sidelines, here in Australia, that of course seems like obvious nonsense. But don't underestimate the power of Trump's delusion to delude others.

In any case, if James Comey's memo comes out - the one where he diarised Trump asking him directly to drop the investigation into Michael Flynn - then it's really hard to see how Trump could survive that, as it would amount to being caught red-handed in the obstruction of justice, and then lying about it. Makes Watergate seem like someone embezzling the tea money from a church fete.

In any case, if James Comey's memo comes out - the one where he diarised Trump asking him directly to drop the investigation into Michael Flynn - then it's really hard to see how Trump could survive that, as it would amount to being caught red-handed in the obstruction of justice, and then lying about it. Makes Watergate seem like someone embezzling the tea money from a church fete — Wayfarer

Eh, small fries. Just wait till he fires Rosenstein and has his replacement drop the special prosecutor.

I reckon his goose is cooked. We'll see, but my bet is that we won't have to wait long.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to have an opinion. What makes you say this?

So far he seems pretty resilient.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to have an opinion. What makes you say this?

So far he seems pretty resilient. — Benkei

There's evidence of obstruction of justice. Bit more serious than the usual fuck-ups.

Up until now all the Trump shenanigans have been not illegal. Not releasing personal finances and being a moron as a president are totally above board, even though the former ought to be.

If he did tell the FBI director to shut down an investigation pertaining to his own election campaign, that's blatantly a conflict of interest. This is compounded by the fact that Trump then fired FBI director Comey and took full credit for it on national television.

Trump says: Shut down the investigation.
Comey says: No.
Trump says: You're fired and that's 100% my decision.

Their either need to prove that trump demanded Comey end the investigation, or that Trump fired Comey because he would not end the investigation, as far as I understand it. (conflict of interest + obstruction of justice)

It's not easy to prove intent in either case as he can walk back the allegedly obscure language ("I hope you can drop this Russia investigation") and he has plausible deniability provided by the Justice Department and some other source who advocated he fire Comey (while he did take credit for the decision on T.V, he can always defer to the reasoning of the advice he claimed not to have acted on).

But I'm starting to think that Trump might finally be showing signs of wear. Rather than endure extended investigation and opposition from all sides (now more than ever) he might want to save face and go down as an undefeated legend by resigning. It gives him his freedom, he can keep on with his MSM lies and hate angle, and America is spared the investigation and can try to recover and reform in the next election, hopefully having learned several sore lessons.

I'm interested to see what a Trump resignation or impeachment could do for reform movements within both major parties and maybe even for a third party. Once the American people see first hand how nauseating a daily circus becomes, they're going to crave seriousness, consistency, and depth.

TL;DR: I'm hoping that the failure of the Trump presidency is going to be like an old-school father forcing their child to smoke an entire pack of cigarettes in one sitting to instill a deep seated sense of disgust for them. Personally I'm not above the use of such corporeal punishment if the behavior we're trying to stem is harmful enough. More Trump... MORE!

I'm interested to see what a Trump resignation or impeachment could do for reform movements within both major parties and maybe even for a third party. Once the American people see first hand how nauseating a daily circus becomes, they're going to crave seriousness, consistency, and depth. — VagabondSpectre

At the very least there needs to be some law in place to automatically establish an independent investigation if the President/Government/Congress are ever under investigation. The current checks and balances don't work if one party is in control (e.g. Rand Paul with "I just don’t think it's useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party" and Nunes' behaviour).

Their either need to prove that trump demanded Comey end the investigation, or that Trump fired Comey because he would not end the investigation, as far as I understand it. (conflict of interest + obstruction of justice) — VagabondSpectre

No. What is now at issue, is that the White House (=Trump) issued a statement categorically denying that Trump asked Comey to drop the investigation into Flynn. If Comey's memo comes out - and it hasn't yet - and it records that Trump asked him to do exactly that, then I can't see it as anything other than checkmate.

The infuriating thing, however, is that there are still so many people who refuse to recognise Trump's incompetence, malfeasance, and mendacity.

Infuriating, and also frightening.

So, you're on the side that thinks Trump and Russia are related somehow? — Question

Yep. Russia and Trump is real. Those Champagne bottles weren't opened in celebrating in Trump's win just for Trump winning, but for the brilliant work made for Russia. There simply is too much that would be just a coincidence. And Trump's irrational, erratic and above all, ignorant actions have shown that this guy would lack so much judgement that he would go with the help of a foreign country and it's intelligence services.

What I find surprising is that these ties didn't come out during a vetting process of potential candidates for the office? — Question

Why do you find it surprising?

Trump had the cozy relationship with the Russians before the elections at least on some level. Just ask yourself: why on Earth would a Trump hire a Paul Manafort, a practical nobody that hasn't done campaign work for ages? But had worked for the pro-Kremlin Yanukovich and earlier for a Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin in order to improve US-Russia ties? Coincidence? Nope.

Because Trump simply from day one accepted Russian help, then surely he had absolutely no incentive to "vet" people. Only after their past came to the focus of the media, then Trump quickly threw under the bus everybody that had anything to do with the Russia thing.

And for obvious reasons, as we will see...

The infuriating thing, however, is that there are still so many people who refuse to recognise Trump's incompetence, malfeasance, and mendacity.

Infuriating, and also frightening. — Wayfarer

It's called denial.

Why do you find it surprising? — ssu

What I found surprising under the assumption that Trump cooperated with the Russians is in regards to vetting done by some agency in regards to the candidate for the office. Are candidates vetted and scrutinized before they can run for office as for any other governmental job of such importance?

I don't think they are.

I thought that was what the NSA and DHS were for.