Well, the assumption is that the Russian government and Trump's election campaign worked together to undermine Clinton's campaign and sway public opinion in favour of Trump using fake news and targeted hacking/leaks.

The FBI, House Intelligence Committee, and Senate Intelligence Committee (and probably others) are investigating. Some are saying that Trump fired Comey to undermine the FBI's investigation (with the HIC and SIC being undermined from within by the Republicans in charge).

Aye, Russian Government and the Republicans are all a bunch of cunts aren't they.

So how long until the clock strikes 13?

Aye, Russian Government and the Republicans are all a bunch of cunts aren't they.

So how long until the clock strikes 13? — JJJJS

Long.

Besides, if Trump would be even a moderately capable politician this would go away... likely with Michael Flynn and Carter Page etc. getting either slap in the wrist or some sentencing and Trump going with the line that he didn't at all know what these guys were doing being his back. Trump then could then pardon on the last day of his presidency (just like Bush did Scooter Libby, who would have otherwise gone to jail).

But as Trump is his worst enemy and obviously lack sound judgement and basically is ignorant, there is a genuine possibility that he will get impeached. Assuming Trump doesn't make it even worse (which he surely can do), the likely timeline is after the 2018 Midterms. Assuming that the Democrats make gains in Congress. Because if there is a Democrat majority, then there surely will be that special prosecutor.

watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doei90OvlOA

There's a bunch of Thorongils in the comments section as well

The Democrats are presently pushing for an investigation in search of a scandal. Just weeks ago, many of them hated Comey or wanted him fired, but now they've donned their tin foil hats again and think his firing has something to do with Russia.

Aye, Russian Government and the Republicans are all a bunch of cunts aren't they. — JJJJS

Crude, sweeping generalizations like this certainly won't endear anything you say to me and likely others on the forum.

Crude, sweeping generalizations like this certainly won't endear anything you say to me and likely others on the forum.

Don't try and get others to gang up on me, you Cunt.

Ooh, what a tough guy.

Why don't you try being friendly?

Just weeks ago, many of them hated Comey or wanted him fired, but now they've donned their tin foil hats again and think his firing has something to do with Russia. — Thorongil

I'm not really sure how the first part of the sentence relates to the second. Are you suggesting that it's hypocritical to be critical of Trump firing Comey after wanting him to be fired? Because that's not true; the criticism is direct at the suggested motive, not just the act itself.

If I want a co-worker fired because they're terrible at their job I would still be outraged if they were fired for being black or gay or a woman or something discriminatory like that.

So there's no hypocrisy, even if the speculation that Trump's motive was to hinder the investigation is unfounded.

Not to a guy who calls whole categories of people cunts unironically.

Are you suggesting that it's hypocritical to be critical of Trump firing Comey after wanting him to be fired? — Michael

Mhmm.

Because that's not true; the criticism is direct at the suggested motive, not the act itself. — Michael

Right, but they've had to create this motive for their own politicking, so they aren't just making an innocent logical distinction as you are here.

Dude. The US can have Russia as its ally if it wants to. Its not a betrayal...except maybe of Ukraine.

There are no more cunts or dicks on the scene than usual.

Maybe he's a Kiwi. They call everybody cunts.

are you a... moderator by any chance?

Right, but they've had to create this motive for their own politicking, so they aren't just making an innocent logical distinction as you are here. — Thorongil

It's too early to say whether or not the suggested motive is a fabrication or genuine, and we're not mind-readers. There are supposedly sources within the White House who have said that Trump has been seeking for excuses to fire Comey. Unfortunately I don't have any way of knowing if these sources exist and are telling the truth – and neither are you, which is why "sweeping generalizations like this certainly won't endear anything you say". ;)

And this is exactly why an independent investigation/special prosecutor is needed. To get to the bottom of all of this, without any partisan bias.

Can I still call Thorongil a weird, snivelling, altright sympathizer?

You can call him George Washington, doesn't make it so.

It's too early to say whether or not the suggested motive is a fabrication or genuine, and we're not mind-readers. — Michael

Correct, but it's still a creation on their part until then.

There are supposedly sources within the White House who have said that Trump has been seeking for excuses to fire Comey. Unfortunately I don't have any way of knowing if these sources exist and are telling the truth – and neither are you, which is why "sweeping generalizations like this certainly won't endear anything you say". — Michael

I haven't technically generalized and for the record don't agree with the firing. I've always thought Comey to be a man of integrity, unlike Trump.

Because George Washington is dead. Weird, snivelling, altright sympathisers are very much alive... and there's one posting in this thread right now

Correct, but it's still a creation on their part until then. — Thorongil

How does that work? If Mr Democrat is told by some White House insider that Trump has ulterior motives for firing Comey then the suggestion that Trump has ulterior motives for firing Comey is a creation of Mr Democrat? Or is it that if Average Joe reads about Mr Democrat reporting his meeting with this White House insider then the suggestion that Trump has ulterior motives is a creation of Average Joe?

It seems to me that you're just assuming that the journalists are lying. What warrants that assumption?

At this point few people doubt that the Russian govt is actively attempting to manipulate events through hacking. The notion has been floated that they want people to know that so there will be awareness of a greater threat in the form of hacking power plants, airports... just general chaos.

Comey's firing is just fun for democrats to play with.

On all of their parts. Still, though, even if someone in the administration alleged that Trump had ulterior motives for firing him, and I don't actually doubt that this is true, since Trump is a smarmy egomaniac, the motive the Democrats are implicitly, if not explicitly, peddling is that it's related to the, in my mind, conspiratorial and factually bankrupt narrative that Russia "influenced" the election (in the genuine sense of tampering with actual votes cast).

related to the, in my mind, conspiratorial and factually bankrupt narrative that Russia "influenced" the election (in the genuine sense of tampering with actual votes cast). — Thorongil

The Russians would have realized early on that tampering with actual votes will lead to little effect. I think their goal of subversion of the masses through many channels of the media through leaking e-mails and such seemingly incriminating evidence is what would have been done.

the motive the Democrats are implicitly, if not explicitly, peddling is that this motive is related to the, in my mind, conspiratorial and factually bankrupt narrative that Russia "influenced" the election (in the genuine sense of tampering with actual votes cast). — Thorongil

I don't think anyone (except the occasional conspiracy theorist) is suggesting that the Russians tampered with the actual ballots. It's that the Russians and Trump's campaign worked together to undermine Clinton and promote Trump through fake media and the hacking and leak of private information. I believe there's also the suggestion that some of the campaign members received payments from the Russians in exchange for having their interests considered in government policy (e.g. with Manafort).

And, of course, there's the claim that the Russians have compromising material on Trump and the Republicans and that they're effectively being held to ransom.

The Russians would have realized early on that tampering with actual votes will lead to little effect. I think their goal of subversion of the masses through many channels of the media through leaking e-mails and such seemingly incriminating evidence is what would have been done. — Question

I don't think anyone (except the occasional conspiracy theorist) is suggesting that the Russians tampered with the actual ballots. It's that the Russians and Trump's campaign worked together to undermine Clinton and promote Trump through fake media and the hacking and leak of private information. I believe there's also the suggestion that some of the campaign members received payments from the Russians in exchange for having their interests considered in government policy (e.g. with Manafort).

And, of course, there's the claim that the Russians have compromising material on Trump and the Republicans and that they're effectively being held to ransom. — Michael

I'll address both of you at once. I get all this, but the way this story has been portrayed by the Democrats and in the media has been misleading, in that they equivocate on the word "influence" to suit their agendas. In my mind, unless the Russians literally hacked the voting machines, I think this story is being overblown to the point of comic absurdity.

Didn't Trump pretty much out his motive right in the letter of dismissal?



I don't imply any deep conspiracy here. I myself am more inclined to believe that Trump was just his usual impulsive, irritable, vindictive, bloody-minded, incompetent self. That he was irked by Comey's pushing the Russia investigation (which is, after all, aimed primarily at his people and possibly himself) seems rather too obvious.

I don't imply any deep conspiracy here. I myself am more inclined to believe that Trump was just his usual impulsive, irritable, vindictive, bloody-minded, incompetent self. That he was irked by Comey's pushing the Russia investigation (which is, after all, aimed primarily at his people and possibly himself) seems rather too obvious. — SophistiCat

Yes, this is my thinking as well. Well said.

Well, people aren't machines that can be hacked into, although they're prone to subversion tactics such as defaming mud-slinging, etc. (?)

Samantha Bee said that Comey may be a turd, but at least he is an independent turd. Trump's firing of Comey puts the whiff of obstruction of justice in the air, especially since, prior to being fired he was asking the Department of Justice to expand the FBI's investigation of Russia's interference in the US general election.

Well, this is interesting. Trump had decided to fire Comey even before (and "regardless of") a recommendation from Rosenstein.