Do we really fear death?

_db

Generally it seems to be the case that people are too busy doing other things than to bother to figure out how they are going to keep doing things forever. But if life is considered to be the greatest gift, then why are so many of us ignoring the looming erasure? Could it be that we do not actually truly believe that life is good?

If we truly feared death, then we would all be focused on figuring out how to stop it from happening. Yet most of us are involved in no such work, and simply take it as a given that we will die someday, and that this is out of control (how do we know it is out of control?). Some of us even make decisions that make it more likely that we will die sooner.

So why is death so commonly seen as one of the greatest evils that can be brought down upon someone?

I think instead of being afraid of dying, we are actually afraid of the way we will die. Death is a beneficial thing for everyone (as it relieves one of a burdensome existence), and I think most people actually look forward to the day in which they are released from the world. What troubles them is how it will happen, when it will occur, how painful it will be, etc. This is why there are oncologists, but not immortalogists.

Of course when put into a life-threatening situation, you will run away from the danger instinctively. So perhaps the fear of death, if it exists, is merely an instinct that a rational mind cannot usually fully overcome, except in extraordinary circumstances.

Outlander

When you create, or even foster life, it's antithesis becomes your enemy.

_db

Paranoid schizophrenic, attempted murderer and radical feminist Valeria Solanas wrote:

All diseases are curable, and the aging process and death are due to disease; it is possible, therefore, never to age and to live forever. In fact the problems of aging and death could be solved within a few years, if an all-out, massive scientific assault were made upon the problem. This, however, will not occur with the male establishment because: ... — SCUM Manifesto

If Solanas is correct to say that aging and death can be solved (or at least postponed a great deal), why is it that we are not more focused on solving it?

Pfhorrest

Because it’s scary to think about so people avoid thinking about it whenever they can. There are a lot of ways on both a personal and societal level that people avoid dealing with problems because then they would have to face the uncomfortable fact that there is a problem and that they need to do something about it. People seem to prefer giving up if the alternative is that they have to do work; at least until the problem is looming over them and it’s too late to do anything but regret not taking action sooner.

Shawn

If we truly feared death, then we would all be focused on figuring out how to stop it from happening. — darthbarracuda

And, indeed we truly fear it. Look at the effects of the industrial revolution on increasing the human lifespan in Western democracies.

180 Proof

Every living thing 'inherently fears' to cease living, no?

Changeling

Every living thing 'inherently fears' to cease living, no? — 180 Proof

@180 Proof knows for a fact that trees 'inherently fear' the cessation of their being.

180 Proof

↪The Opposite

Go figure.

T Clark

But if life is considered to be the greatest gift, then why are so many of us ignoring the looming erasure? Could it be that we do not actually truly believe that life is good?

If we truly feared death, then we would all be focused on figuring out how to stop it from happening. — darthbarracuda

I'm 69. I'm not ignoring my death as it get's inevitably closer, but I'm very likely to die within the next 20 years. I'm leading a pretty good life. I love my family and most of them love me. My children are people I like and respect and they like and respect me. I'm retired so I can pretty much do as I want as long as I'm not excessive, which my wife and I are not by nature. I can swim at the YMCA every day if I want.

As Woody Allen said, "I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to be there when it happens." I don't want to live forever. 100,000,000,000 people have died since homo sapiens got started. That's 10,000 generations give or take. Grandparents, parents, children, grand children over and over 2,500 times. My great grandmother, who was still alive when I was a baby was a baby during the US Civil War. Dying is one of the most human things we can do.

180 Proof

Dying is one of the most human things we can do. — T Clark

:fire:

baker

↪darthbarracuda

I think people generally don't fear death, but they fear living a meaningless life, and they fear that their options for making life meaningful will some day run out.

I like sushi

The end of ends. Fear of finality is probably a worthy fear … if you believe in finality.

Merkwurdichliebe

In the Phaedo, Socrates says:

the one aim of those who practice philosophy in the proper manner is to practice for dying and death

ssu

I think instead of being afraid of dying, we are actually afraid of the way we will die. — darthbarracuda

I don't think so.

What I am afraid about is the effect that my death will have on other people's lives, like my children, and of course what I would be missing out if I died now. All the happy events, the memorable situations, the exiting moments that life has to offer.

My mother died when I was a teen. It sucked. I wouldn't want my children to lose their father at a young age, it really creates a void. At least now they will surely remember me. I would have liked to have had my mother for longer. She would have surely loved her grandchildren. And I've seen how much sorrow and sadness there is when parents lose their child. It really is the case that children should bury their parents, not the other way around. If you have parents that love you, think about how they would feel if you die.

At older age some are ready to die. They have seen their friends or their loved ones died and have not much to do, especially if they are sick. For many people it's actually a relief.

If you have nobody, absolutely nobody in this World that cares about you or for whom you are important, then perhaps the only thing that you might be afraid of death is the pain or the way you go. The World will hardly notice your departure.

Merkwurdichliebe

At older age some are ready to die. They have seen their friends or their loved ones died and have not much to do, especially if they are sick. For many people it's actually a relief. — ssu

Death is preferable to many living conditions, without a doubt. Sickness especially, I once had such painful larengitis that I constantly thought about how death would be a relief. In fact, I will go so far as to say: suicide is absolutely unjustifiable, but I imagine that the best excuse for it would be physical pain.

To digress, I find the contrast between modern euthanasia and ancient/classic euthanasia to be interesting. Modern euthanasia is concerned with averting pain and discomfort, eg. being put to sleep while suffering from terminal cancer. In contrast, the traditional form is concerned with dying in an honorable way, eg. falling in battle for the flag.

Tom Storm

My great grandmother, who was still alive when I was a baby was a baby during the US Civil War. Dying is one of the most human things we can do. — T Clark

I shook hands with a man who shook hands with a man who knew Oscar Wilde. It doesn't take long for eras and folk to come and go. The only people I've known who fear death are Christians who did nasty things when younger. Fear of judgement after death is still a thing.

In fact, I will go so far as to say: suicide is absolutely unjustifiable, but I imagine that the best excuse for it would be physical pain. — Merkwurdichliebe

Not sure what rule book you've pulled that notion from but for me suicide is a right and a lovely idea in the right set of circumstances.

baker

I shook hands with a man who shook hands with a man who knew Oscar Wilde. — Tom Storm

Awww. :hearts:

counterpunch

Not as much as truth!

Apollodorus

I think instead of being afraid of dying, we are actually afraid of the way we will die. — darthbarracuda

Sounds like a reasonable assumption to me.

If, as Plato and other philosophers claim, we really are a non-physical entity called "soul" and, in particular, if we accept the theory of reincarnation, also referred to by Plato and others, then it stands to reason to believe that a part of us, at least, looks forward to dying, i.e., to separating itself from the mortal body and the physical world, and return to a brighter and happier existence on a different, higher plane.

At the same time, another part of us, that is more closely connected with the physical body and the imaginative-emotional aspect of our being, is ignorant or forgetful of our true origin and destiny, and produces in us a fear of death, i.e., a fear of the unknown and associated potentiality for suffering.

On reflection, of course, if there is no life after death we have nothing to fear. And, if there is, we have everything to gain. Unless we have engaged in actions that lead us to believe that we may be subject to judgement and punishment in the other world. In which case it would boil down to a secret fear of punishment.

tim wood

I think instead of being afraid of dying, we are actually afraid of the way we will die. — darthbarracuda

If one is to be afraid, and it is human to be afraid, the how of it is the thing to be afraid of. Seventeen posts, most concerning a topic no one knows anything about, namely being dead. Even "dead" itself is a problematic word. How can one "be" dead?

A human life span of 100 years, itself more than enough to wear away most people, stacked against the universe's 14x10^9 years, is an inconceivably brief moment. Our little acre nothing against its vastness. Any claims of individual life against which a vast vanity. Perhaps the vastness of the vanity justified by what it opposes - but a foolish vanity withal.

It strikes me watching as I sometimes do old films that everyone in the film and all listed in the credits are dead. And we can watch films from before 1910 of city life, the bustle of downtown or the train station with an arriving train. And all the vanities, hopes, joys of all pictured, dead. Draw what lessons you will.

SolarWind

On reflection, of course, if there is no life after death we have nothing to fear. — Apollodorus

How do you imagine this "nothing"?

Is it like floating in a dark and silent room? Seeing and hearing nothing forever?

A very terrible idea.

Apollodorus

How do you imagine this "nothing"? — SolarWind

Good question. It is hard to imagine, I think.

In some traditions, it is common practice to imagine oneself as a dead and decomposing body eaten by worms, etc. The problem with this is that a dead body, of course, is unlikely to experience itself in quite the same way we visualize it whilst living.

Maybe we find it so hard to imagine because it is outside normal experience. Or because something within us not only believes but actually knows that death is not the end ....

Jack Cummins

↪darthbarracuda

I often like to think that I am not afraid of death, and the worst form of death I can imagine is suicide. That is because it would be a life ended in despair and I have known several people who have committed suicide. As far as fear of death is concerned, any of us could die suddenly, such as getting knocked over by a car, but, for most of us, death is not imminent.

So, I do wonder how different it is when one knows that one is likely to die very soon. Even though I may say, with some bravado, that I am not afraid of death, if I was told that I was terminally ill, I wonder if my attitude would change, and I wonder if I would become extremely afraid. I am not sure whether the fear would entail existential anxiety about unresolved questioning about life after death, fear of ceasing to exist, or any others. What I am trying to say is that we may not know really whether we fear death until it looms before us in an immediate way.

TheMadFool

Every living creature fears death. Discussing this is flogging a dead horse!

What we should be really doing is try and discover what death fears. That sounds like a great idea, right?

I know what death fears!

Math, geometric progression or the number 2 as relates to cell division.

Once there was 1 cell. Death said, "no problem. just one small accident and life's done for." Then the 1 cell divides and now there are 2 cells. Death (slightly dismayed), "WTF? There are two of them! No problemo! I can handle 2". A few moments later, each of the two cells divide and now 4 cells. Death (distressed), "4! Let me see...I'll take care of that one first, then that one..." After some time, each of the 4 cells divide and now 8 cells. Death, "What's going on here? I thought there were only 4." Before Death can come up with a plan to off the 8 cells, 8 becomes 16, 16 becomes 32, so and so forth until there are billions and billions, trillions, quintillions, sextillions of cells, dividing non-stop. Death, :fear: :fear: :fear:

It's elementary my dear Watson. Death fears geometric progressions. — Sherlock Holmes

What about cancer, Sherlock? — Dr. Watson

Double-edged sword, Watson! Double-edged sword! — Sherlock Holmes

tim wood

Every living creature fears death. — TheMadFool

I deny it. Make your case.

TheMadFool

I deny it. Make your case. — tim wood

You don't fear death? Why? Perhaps you mean there's somebody you know who doesn't fear death. Again, why?

tim wood

↪TheMadFool

Distinction between death and dying. Further, I am not persuaded that creatures of my acquaintance, near or far, fear either death or dying. Maybe pain, but likely operating on an entire whole other set of priorities.

Manuel

If you have nobody, absolutely nobody in this World that cares about you or for whom you are important, then perhaps the only thing that you might be afraid of death is the pain or the way you go. The World will hardly notice your departure. — ssu

It won't notice even if you are lucky enough to have a few people care about you.

TheMadFool

Distinction between death and dying. Further, I am not persuaded that creatures of my acquaintance, near or far, fear either death or dying. Maybe pain, but likely operting on an entire whole other set of priorities. — tim wood

Don't talk about pain. Pain is the true prophet, not sleep like @180 Proof thinks, of death! Pain exists to keep death at bay - a stitch in time saves nine kinda deal.

Also, not to denigrate the suffering of those who suicide, I feel the idea of, "there are some things (pain/suffering) worse things than death" is more nuanced than appears at first glance. We might need to make the fine distinction between "no fear (of death)" and "lesser (fear of death)". The former is absolute (rare/nonexistent) and the latter is relative (quite common/suicide).

tim wood

Pain exists to keep death at bay - a stitch in time saves nine kinda deal. — TheMadFool

Pain useful in evolutionary terms, but yours crosses into teleology.

But you again refer to death. Please make clear what it is that you're referring to. What do you know about death?

Further, "creatures" is your word, not mine. If you wish to restrict to human beings, I'm agreeable. Else on your terminology we're also considering all other animals. And maybe some other living things.

TheMadFool

Pain useful in evolutionary terms, but yours crosses into teleology. — tim wood

So? You say it as if that's wrong.

But you again refer to death. Please make clear what it is that you're referring to. What do you know about death? — tim wood

Those are waypoints we've already crossed. I'm disinclined to return to ground already covered. Sorry.

Further, "creatures" is your word, not mine. If you wish to restrict to human beings, I'm agreeable. Else on your terminology we're also considering all other animals. And maybe some other living things. — tim wood

I'm employing conventional terms, part of the vernacular. I don't understand your objections. I haven't resorted to coining new words in which case I'd be obliged to clarify them.

Do we really fear death?

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