So many words, so much nothing. Obama slaughtered hundreds and thousands overseas, deported about as many people domestically, persecuted whistleblowers, precipitated ISIS, shovelled trillions in taxpayer money towards corporations while leaving people to die homeless, and compromised at every point with the utter crazy of the Republican party when he did not need to, and was effectively responsible for Trump, and now the shitstain that is Biden - among other things. Your whataboutism is sophist trash and can go fuck itself. Obama was a visionless, spineless waste of space, and nothing but a vessel for corporate and military interests. And he was these things regardless of anyone or anything else.

I'm talking about pushing for the policies that are popular with most everyday people, such as Medicare for all, a living wage, etc. — ToothyMaw

This is judged to be entirely reasonable, so thanks for that. Given that I am after all a Hippyhead, I expect we might experience considerable agreement on policy.

So how might such noble goals be accomplished? If the Dems win the Senate and we shove all of this down the Repubs throat, they will simply repeal it all the next time they are in power. Yes, Obamacare has survived the repeal attempts, but only just barely.

If we are to achieve anything truly sustainable we'll have to find common ground with at least some Republicans. This is unlikely to happen if our focus is on yelling names like "fucking retards" and "war criminals" etc at them to get our jollies off. If we insist on yelling such names at our own committed allies, then it is we who are the fucking retards.

Many or most Republican voters are actually pretty reasonable people who have some valid concerns. Profit driven corporate media obscures this by focusing on the looney tooners. Many Republicans voted for Trump because WE lost them, as the Democratic Party has gotten in to the unfortunate habit of often ignoring and even insulting the average working person. Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comes to mind. Automation and globalization costing millions of American jobs, while our attention is focused elsewhere.

The election of Trump was OUR failure. A great many of those Trump voters have long stood with us. And we lost them. Yes, we need to reach out to these people, show them some respect, and try to win them back.

"fucking retards" — Hippyhead

When the fuck did I say that?

If the Dems win the Senate and we shove all of this down the Repubs throat, they will simply repeal it all the next time they are in power. — Hippyhead

But if we don't get that stuff passed it won't even exist to be repealed. I'll respond to this tomorrow.

If we are to achieve anything truly sustainable we'll have to find common ground with at least some Republicans. — Hippyhead

Common ground with respect to how hard we should get fucked by corporate interests?

Many or most Republican voters are actually pretty reasonable people who have some valid concerns. — Hippyhead

Most republicans voted for Trump, but I admit that there are some reasonable, misinformed republicans, yes.

Many Republicans voted for Trump because WE lost them, as the Democratic Party has gotten in to the unfortunate habit of often ignoring and even insulting the average working person. — Hippyhead

What about Bernie? He never belittled working class people; he quite obviously had nothing but respect for them.

The election of Trump was OUR failure. — Hippyhead

I would say it was a failure on behalf of the neoliberal part of the democratic party.

we need to reach out to these people, show them some respect, and try to win them back. — Hippyhead

I have trouble believing ardent Trump supporters can be "won back". Maybe the more moderate ones can, however.

unlikely to happen if our focus is on yelling names like "fucking retards" and "war criminals" etc at them to get our jollies off. If we insist on yelling such names at our own committed allies, then it is we who are the fucking retards.

Many or most Republican voters are actually pretty reasonable people who have some valid concerns. — Hippyhead

Unless they are, and how is a vote for Trump reasonable? Is McConnell your idea of a reasonable man? Lindsay Graham? Ted Cruz? The climate-problem and science deniers, the racists, the thieves? Any of them who have remained silent at Trump's outrageousness? There's a house to clean, and the bugs, lice, fungus, and vermin aren't going to like it, and they're not supposed to. And knuckles sometimes bleed in a vigorous cleaning. But that happens sometimes when a job is hard, challenging, necessary, and worth doing.

What exactly was the error? — tim wood

If you're really interested, watch the Frontline documentary. It's as unbiased a viewpoint as you'll find. Obama said it himself on the way out: Syria is what haunts him.

I dont think he's haunted by what he did to Wall St. I think he truly thinks he did the right thing. I believe he just postponed a collapse and I see what its doing to millennials and following generations. The US has profound income inequality and demoralized youth.

And it's interesting that you appear to find enough virtue in clearly flawed white men who were president, such that they get a pass, and yet Obama rates apparent hatred as the worst. — tim wood

The reason you want to hold off on this kind of accusation is that you never know when the person you're talking to is half Filipino and half black. :monkey:

And my question, that you ignored, is who is your choice — tim wood

I'm not sure why this is relevant. I get the impression you really can't look at the situation objectively.

The reason you want to hold off on this kind of accusation is that you never know when the person you're talking to is half Filipino and half black. — frank

What you may be is not an account of what or how you think. If you think it is, then you're "hoist by your own petard."

I think Obama thought he was doing the best he could at all times. I think he was at all times attempting to use best judgment, character, and will. That some things didn't work as hoped is at least par for the course. But those are matters of events and even luck and fate, but not against the man himself.

Ah yes, those 'accidental' extrajudicial drone strikes, those 'chance' deportations, the 'bad luck' of aggressively trying to crush whistleblowers. Your nose couldn't be more brown if you tried. Maybe use a bit of tongue next time.

When the fuck did I say that? — ToothyMaw

Read please. I didn't say you said that. But you do see do have some affection for the word fuck in general.

What about Bernie? He never belittled working class people; he quite obviously had nothing but respect for them. — ToothyMaw

I like Bernie. Voted for him. But did you notice that he lost, twice? All angry all the time is not a winning strategy. That's much of what I'm trying to say here.

I don't think I hold a candle to you in erudition or reading and perhaps even in education - and I conclude that from some of your posts in other threads. So perhaps an agreement: If you'll stop being an a**hole here, I won't yield to the temptation to call attention to it. Maybe?

No, I think I will continue calling you out for being an apologist and propagandist for power and its abuse.

And that might be reasonable, were I doing that. But is there anyone you wouldn't shorten by a head? if not, then you're not especially reasonable.

That some things didn't work as hoped is at least par for the course. — tim wood

From outer space it all looks like one long bloody slog. Intentions are just shadows.

That's your dose of nihilism for the day.

But is there anyone you wouldn't shorten by a head? — tim wood

This is a stupid, irrelevant question, designed to deflect.

if not, then you're not especially reasonable. — tim wood

It's not reasonable to expect reasonable dialog with Streetlight. Probably wisest to give up all hope of such and move on to greener pastures.

And that might be reasonable, were I doing that. But is there anyone you wouldn't shorten by a head? if not, then you're not especially reasonable. — tim wood

Come on Tim, that's a silly question, we both surely know that there would be at least........ five people still left with their heads attached if Streetlight took power.

Just ignore Hippyhead. He thinks he knows what he talks about but I've never seen a post of his containing any level of analysis.

I must've missed it but where did he suggest he'd go around beheading people or advising it?

It's not reasonable to expect reasonable dialog with Streetlight. — Hippyhead

We could say the same thing about tim as well.

Boy this thread has degenerated. A true representation of its title.

I don't know about beheading specifically but on more than a few occasions he's wished death on political opponents. Also of note is that he flat out refuses to engage the other side in discussion, which I think certainly speaks volumes. I know he's going to see this post and a snarky remark is coming, but I don't really have anything against the guy I just wish he'd get some help.

Boy this thread has degenerated — Metaphysician Undercover

Well, there is a partial solution available. Kill all the political threads. Or perhaps shove them all in to the Lounge? A significant portion of the political analysis here is abysmal anyway....

Case in point.

The vindictive part of me wants Biden to win the nomination, and then watch with glee as he loses the presidency - as he obviously will - and watch democrats wonder HOW THIS COULD HAVE POSSIBLY HAPPENED. — StreetlightX

but I don't really have anything against the guy I just wish he'd get some help. — BitconnectCarlos

If he retired as a mod that would satisfy me. It's one thing to be an ornery puss, cause you know, this is the land of philosophy and that's not so rare, this poster included. Putting ornery pusses in charge of the job of trying to elevate the quality of the forum is another thing.

To argue the other side, my impression is that he has the job because no one else is willing to do it, so there's that. The entire forum realm has been trending downhill for years, so it's probably just an aspect of Internet change we should learn to make peace with. All things must pass. The only other thing I wish to add is this....

All of you are dead head nitwits with shit for brains who couldn't find your own ass if your life depended on it and not only that you totally suck, suck, suck you fucking retards!!

Can I be a mod now?

Oops, sorry, I forget to yell that YOU'RE ALL WAR CRIMINALS TOO!!!

The vindictive part of me wants Biden to win the nomination, and then watch with glee as he loses the presidency - as he obviously will - and watch democrats wonder HOW THIS COULD HAVE POSSIBLY HAPPENED. — StreetlightX

Ha, I remember that. 11 months ago, before Trump allowed ~250k Americans - at the time of the election - to die of Covid. A gift for Biden. The democrats traded their victory for a quarter of a million dead Americans. I can shamelessly say I missed that calculation.

I do like how committing war crimes is just kind of a joke to people like Hippy.

In Georgia, another Republican lawsuit was just struck down. The Republican party sued, arguing that the absentee ballot boxes (that you can use if you don't want to mail in your ballot) should be locked after 5:00 pm each day because that's the time the early voting polling places close. Yes, they actually sued to stop late night drop off of ballots. https://www.ajc.com/politics/judge-dismisses-gop-lawsuit-to-limit-georgia-ballot-drop-box-hours/XHGJZ5UTPRBPJBMP3G63SYVX3E/

Apparently some folk are betting and biting nails over this:

Election Needles: Georgia Senate Runoffs (The New York Times)

Republicans have taken a narrow lead in the tabulated vote, but the Democrats are clear favorites in both races. The overwhelming majority of remaining votes are in the Atlanta metro area, and while the race remains competitive, there's no indication that the Republicans are poised to outperform expectations. The big Democratic vote left: the DeKalb County early vote. We expect these 170,000 votes to break for Ossoff by an 85-15 margin.

(Will the conspiracy theorists also see faces in the clouds here...?)

The Democrats will now also control the Senate

You mean the Georgia primaries? All the sources I’m reading say ‘too close to call’.

I was reading a piece in Daily Beast earlier about the shit that all the electoral officers and state politicians have been put through in Georgia. Instead of concentrating on actually running the elections they’re constantly tied up battling Republican and Q-Anon election conspiriacies, fanned and exacerbated by you-know-who.

We have the tools in Georgia to run the cleanest, most transparent, most auditable election in the history of the state - and nobody believes it. — Georgia Election Official

Oh my, Republican clown world is falling apart. What a surprise.

All the sources I’m reading say ‘too close to call’. — Wayfarer

Wasserman called this hours ago, The NYT needle virtually called it hours ago. The obituaries are being written. Stop watching CNN who are trying to make it exciting for the plebs.

But Purdue is up by 100 votes! (Meanwhile almost all remaining 100,000 votes are in heavily democratic Atlanta counties where Ossoff is winning 85 to 15%).

'I wouldn't trade places with Edmund Exley Mitch McConnell right now for all the whisky in Ireland.'

Captain Dudley Smith (from L A Confidential.)