Trump will go around preparing for a "The Real Inauguration", the inauguration of the real President, but in the end nothing will come out of it and it will turn out to be a scam to get people to give money to fund his oncoming legal battles. — ssu

The real inauguration will be at the Four Seasons...

Depends on if Biden can even run by then. If not then the Democrats will most likely nominate Harris whose message is *checks notes* being the first Black, Asian American Female president. She'll probably have Buttigieg as her running mate as well, who will be the first gay VP if elected. I mean, Biden's cabinet was praised for it's diversity (despite being full of the same corporate goons) so it's very obvious that the party is all in on identity politics as their winning pitch for the foreseeable future. — Mr Bee

I meant I don't see the Democrats winning next time. They had the "not Trump" turn out now but that's gone next time. And the corporate shill spiel, I'm betting Americans are smarter than that and if not smarts then definitely they must feel something is off after the lost decade with terrorism wars and the first crisis and now a pandemic and another crisis where again the rich aren't bleeding like the next man. Two lost decades? They sense the inequality and the betrayal hence Trump last time.

What are these fantasies about Trump doing much of anything after he's out. Near as I can tell he has a long road of legal criminal reckoning to travel. And then there are the civil cases. And after that...? Given his circumstances, age, and mental health, I think it's 50-50 he does not live to see 2022.

In sum, he's just a postule, a sign and symptom of a deeper disease. That the target now.

The headline I'm looking at is Trump demands that Barr look harder for proof of voter fraud (3 Dec. 20). Gosh, I guess Trump does not have any.

The real inauguration will be at the Four Seasons... — Echarmion

...Total Landscaping Company.

The headline I'm looking at is Trump demands that Barr look harder for proof of voter fraud — tim wood

One of the remarks Bob Woodward made after his extensive series of phone interviews with Trump, is that Trump really doesn't have a grasp of reality. He can't differentiate what he believes, or wants to believe, from what is real.

I don’t know, to be honest, whether he’s got it straight in his head on what is real and what is unreal. That is why, at the end of the book, I say, in totality, my judgment is this is the wrong man for the job. — Bob Woodward

Although I think this has been pretty obvious since Day One.

(I note that the Biden team is mostly ignoring Trump, which is probably what I ought to do from now on.)

I meant I don't see the Democrats winning next time. They had the "not Trump" turn out now but that's gone next time. And the corporate shill spiel, I'm betting Americans are smarter than that and if not smarts then definitely they must feel something is off after the lost decade with terrorism wars and the first crisis and now a pandemic and another crisis where again the rich aren't bleeding like the next man. Two lost decades? They sense the inequality and the betrayal hence Trump last time. — Benkei

I guess I don't disagree for the most part, but if the Democrats would win again, it would be with an incumbent on the ticket instead of Ms. identity politics on steroids (and even then it's a 50/50 thing). It's clear the party has learnt the wrong lessons from last time and they'll go on pretending like the problem is not with them which isn't a good sign for their future.

The only other way I can see the Dems winning again is if Trump somehow blows his party up in the next 4 years. It's crazy to say that that's not a total impossibility but that's where things have gone in America.

If the Republican party implodes because of Trumpism, what do you all expect the resultant new status quo will be? FPTP guarantees a two-party system. Will the Democrats split into corporatist and progressive wings? Will a third party (Libertarians?) take the Republcians' place?

They had the "not Trump" turn out now but that's gone next time. — Benkei

Not if Trump maintains any sway, which he seems to have a lot of right now, then he'll be right back next time.

I guess Trump does not have any. — tim wood

Wow, What a surprise! Maybe that's why all those judges keep rejecting him, I thought it was because they're all part of the anti-Trump, anti-America conspiracy.

I guess I don't disagree for the most part, but if the Democrats would win again, it would be with an incumbent on the ticket instead of Ms. identity politics on steroids (and even then it's a 50/50 thing). It's clear the party has learnt the wrong lessons from last time and they'll go on pretending like the problem is not with them which isn't a good sign for their future.

The only other way I can see the Dems winning again is if Trump somehow blows his party up in the next 4 years. It's crazy to say that that's not a total impossibility but that's where things have gone in America. — Mr Bee

I agree except that the GOP blowing up means the Democrats won't offer real policy changes because they won't have too. It's not something to look forward to if that happens as it will probably set back the progressive influence on the party for years, which has been gaining recently.

I agree except that the GOP blowing up means the Democrats won't offer real policy changes because they won't have too. — Benkei

...until another second party takes the place of the GOP, as is inevitable under our FPTP system. And that second party may very well be a progressive party, if the Democrats split into a corporatist side and a progressive side.

I first read about Michael Flynn's martial law petition today. Incredible stuff. He cites alleged restrictions on freedom of speech as a reason to criminalise the free press. Actually compares BLM protesters with slave owners with no irony. But I did learn that Abe was a bit of a Trump.

An interesting perspective from one of my go-to commentators:

"American institutions have often been the friend of the most authoritarian projects, as I argued in my first book ... And in fact, to the extent that Trump’s politics had any juice at all, it was precisely because the institutions support that politics. Where would Trump be without the Electoral College or the Senate confirming his judges and justices—and where would Trumpism be under a Biden administration without the Senate and the courts?

It’s ironic to me that people would choose this moment, and Trump’s presidency, to assign the label “fascist” to the right, for what fascism is about, above all else, is a politics of strength and will. That’s why fascists traditionally loathe the constitutional order: because they think it constrains the assertion of political will. The irony of Trumpist/GOP politics is that it is completely dependent upon the constitutional order. In that regard, it’s almost the complete opposite of fascism

... It seems so strange to me that people spoke so much of authoritarianism under Trump when what we’ve been seeing for years now, including the Trump years, is political impotence, the absence of political will. And without the left getting its act together, I don’t see that changing any time soon. That is something to be very worried about".

I still think Trump is something of an aspirational fascist - he's still a race-baiting nationalist who trades on a cult of personality - but he's simply too incompetent and too stupid of a human being to do anything about it.

From a NYT OP:

Along with many other state-level Republican election officials, Sterling and Raffensperger have shown admirable commitment to the rule of law. Their refusal to participate in Trump’s attempted autogolpe helped avert a constitutional crisis. Yet it’s hard not to notice that their outrage is a bit selective. — Michelle Goldberg

https://nyti.ms/37snUNe

New word! Autogolpe is 'A self-coup - a form of putsch or coup d'état in which a nation's leader, despite having come to power through legal means, dissolves or renders powerless the national legislature and unlawfully assumes extraordinary powers not granted under normal circumstances. Other measures taken may include annulling the nation's constitution, suspending civil courts and having the head of government assume dictatorial powers.' (Wikipedia)

This is exactly what Trump and his sycophants are trying to achieve, although as SLX points out, Trump's mendacity is outweighed only by his utter lack of competence. And also the resistance of lower-level, mainly state, republican electoral officials and politicians, ought to be acknowledged.

the coda of that OP:

“The Republican establishment, and also the conservative establishment, has always made this bet that it could open Pandora’s box and close it on command,” Rick Perlstein, a historian of American conservatism, told me. They could activate tribalism to achieve power, while maintaining a modicum of respectability. They could create an alternative reality but keep people enclosed within it. But with Trump “having pried Pandora’s box open, that becomes impossible,” Perlstein said.

Republicans helped Trump unleash countless civic evils. They shouldn’t be surprised when those evils don’t spare them.

:naughty: :fire: :scream:

Hair-dye-dripping-farting-confused-pervert-lying-fantasist-Trump-minion-lawyer Rudy Foolliani got COVID. Hopefully, it won't kill him because... the comedy. :party:

This is exactly what Trump and his sycophants are trying to achieve, although as SLX points out, Trump's mendacity is outweighed only by his utter lack of competence — Wayfarer

I can fully agree that Trump is an evil scumbag, so we don't have to debate that.

Claims by some that Trump is stupid and incompetent strike me as somewhat ridiculous emotional poses by my fellow members. In 2016 he defeated all competition from every party, and successfully showed the entire political and media classes to be incompetent in their predictions. Since then he's come to totally dominate the Republican Party to the point that very few Republican leaders will publicly stand up to him. Yes, he lost in 2020, but not by that much. And now he is using his defeat to raise something like 200 million dollars for investment in his next political adventure.

Dear fellow members, when you can match this record of accomplishment please return to the thread, this time with actual evidence, to show that you are smarter than Trump. When you get elected to ANY OFFICE, that would be a good time to try again.

Members are confusing their distaste for Trump, which I enthusiastically share, with an analysis of his intelligence. But then, the political commentary here is generally abysmal, so I have only myself to blame if I'm surprised.

Trump has had an instinctive ability to tap into a certain anti-establishment mindset and manipulate it to his advantage. On the other hand, he's incredibly ignorant on stuff like science and geopolitics. You can be lacking in intelligence in many areas and still have "street smarts"—though clearly even those failed him this time around as he managed to lose the election by a bigger margin than any incumbent in modern history. He's not playing 4D chess, so much as 1D checkers.

Trump has had an instinctive ability to tap into a certain anti-establishment mindset and manipulate it to his advantage. — Baden

I think his "instinctive ability" is that he's a realist. He's not burdened with visions of how things should be and so can better see things as they really are. Here's an example to illustrate.

The media typically presents itself as a public service, and we typically buy this story. Trump sees through this self flattering story the media tells itself about itself, and understands that corporate media is just another profit seeking business. He "instinctively" gets that the media is not in the news business, they are in the ad selling business, and that their business model is powered by drama. So Trump hands over a non-stop stream of drama and is rewarded by the media with a non-stop spotlight on his every utterance.

As evidence, using this method Trump has succeeded in getting you and me to talk about him in this thread. And by talking about him, focusing on him, keeping him in the spotlight, we are helping to make him powerful. We're all competing to proclaim how superior we are to Trump etc etc, but here we are, doing his bidding.

He's not playing 4D chess, so much as 1D checkers. — Baden

Um, when was the last time that piles of total strangers sent you 200 million dollars? When was the last time that powerful Senators got down on their knees before you? How many people come to your rallies? When were you last covered on the news?

My point is this. This thread is mostly little people trying to pretend they are big. Me too. It's not really about evidence or reason or philosophy so much as it is emotional posturing.

[Deleted comment] — Wayfarer

It works.

Here's an example. I drive on the same road every day. At least 90% of the time other drivers tailgate me, risking their lives, in exchange for no conceivable benefit. What I like about this example is that it includes a randomized sample of the entire population, rich, poor, educated, uneducated, Dems, Repubs etc. People are stupid.

Another example which is also pretty all inclusive. You might have heard me mention that nuclear weapons could erase modern civilization in literally just a few minutes, and yet we just had a presidential campaign where they were just barely mentioned. Biden, Trump, the media, nobody interested. This forum too, incapable of focusing on it. People are stupid.

Trump is a realist. That is his gift. He's dealing with the world the way it really is. Stupid. The evidence for this is that his strategies are working.

Another example, the Catholic Church. It's quite trendy here and elsewhere to call them stupid too. And yet they are a 2,000 year old institution which forms one of the foundations of Western civilization. You don't reach such heights by being stupid, but by being a realist.

As Baden said, Trump is street smart, and certainly not an intellectual. I can agree with that. But being street smart to a high degree does not equal being stupid.

It's quite sad that being "big" in the way Trump is (defrauding supporters, bullying politicians, attracting media attention) is something you find admirable and desirable and makes you feel like a "little" person. Can't help you with that.

Aspiring to be like Trump is like aspiring to eat your next meal out of a toilet bowl.

Trump is a realist. That is his gift. He's dealing with the world the way it really is. — Hippyhead

:rofl:

On the other hand, people as, uh, 'gifted' as Hippyhead are exemplary of how Trump gets to be as popular as he is. Morons mistaking other morons for brilliance.

You must admit it took some next-level ingenuity to lose the election in a landslide to Joe 30330 Biden.

Dealing with the world the way it really is? More like denying the way the world really is. "We won the election by a lot!"

No, Trump is a realist see, which is why he has not at any point been denying reality like the clown he is since the election and has gracefully accepted his loss. Most definitely not living in a fantasy world.

I deleted my comment because I said some time back I would stop commenting on Trump. Counting the days......

It's quite sad that being "big" in the way Trump is (defrauding supporters, bullying politicians, attracting media attention) is something you find admirable and desirable and makes you feel like a "little" person. — Baden

As usual, every thing I'm saying is going right over your oh so clever little heads, and we've proven I'm not going to be able to fix that.

Can you read? I said nothing about Trump being admirable or desirable. What I did say is that his methods have been quite successful, and success on that scale is not usually not a product of stupidity. I did specifically say I share your distaste for this asshole.

I deleted my comment because I said some time back I would stop commenting on Trump. Counting the days...... — Wayfarer

Well, he may be aiming for a come back in 2024, so, sorry to say, might be a lot of counting ahead of us.

At least when he's finally out of office on Jan 20th, everyone can stop talking about him non-stop. The NY Times should send him flowers and thank card for all the business Trump gained them the past four years.

I can't believe a philosophy forum spent 483 pages talking about Donald Trump.