1- Both of them are necessary for survival — khaled
2- Both of them have the potential of causing involuntary suffering on another being (it is involuntary in the case of eating because many who work in food production and distribution are there because they can't find another job and dangerous because of the risks associated with the job. Way more people get disfigured in the food and clothing industries than there are disfigured children) — khaled
↪Terrapin Station
yes that is exactly what that implies. Or rather, it implies that it would be better to fart AWAY from you than I'm your vicinity which makes perfect sense to me. I don't know why it sounds so absurd to you — khaled
I restated P1 as: Taking a course of action that results in more net suffering in the world than there would be without taking that course of action is immoral. — khaled
Of course there is something to consider within a moral light. Your choice to give birth results in more suffering in the world than there was previously — khaled
Except Harry Potter can never be harmed. However, a potential person can be harmed in real life, if it is born. — schopenhauer1
1. Both of them are not necessary for individual survival. — schopenhauer1
There is no harm in having no children at all, but there is harm in having any child, as that child will suffer. — schopenhauer1
If all signs point to the likelihood of children leading enjoyable lives, then overall, generally, or in most cases, it is not harmful or immoral to create them. — VagabondSpectre
If the only argument is that doing anything which might risk the suffering of others is immoral — VagabondSpectre
to something that's not that big of a deal. If any arbitrary unpleasantness whatsoever is that traumatic to anyone they have serious issues that they need to deal with via counseling. — Terrapin Station
In the case of murder you increase suffering because you are causing harm to someone who is actual. — Moliere
As schopenhauer1 can assure you, existing is tantamount to suffering, having to try to maintain existence, achieve goals and pretty much everything we do is unnecessary, the antinatalist argues — Πετροκότσυφας
Yeah, maybe I don't. But it's just bad for them that they bite the bullet cause in that case they produce a whole lot of suffering they could have avoided — Πετροκότσυφας
don't think there is any reason to have children. Lots of people do not have children. — Andrew4Handel
Having a child or more will not prevent your inevitable death. — Andrew4Handel
i cannot think or a morally good or coherent reason for having children — Andrew4Handel
So if I kill someone painlessly it's okay? Because there is nothing to experience the pain or complain afterwards? — khaled
It's really very simple
Give birth: increases net suffering in the world
Don't give birth: don't increase net suffering in the world
Therefore not giving birth is morally and giving birth is immoral.
That is, after all, the consequence of global anti-natalism. The principle of reducing suffering is taken to a point where the context in which said principle was developed can no longer be applied. — Moliere
I don't think giving birth increases the net suffering in the world. It makes the world in the first place — Moliere
No it doesn't. A rock is a rock even without kids observing it — khaled
Plus, in practice no human evaluation of life takes as its only criterion the amount of suffering without any attention paid to other facets of human existence — Πετροκότσυφας
You, on the other hand, argued that not giving birth reduces pain — Πετροκότσυφας
You asserted this out of the blue with no explanation. The reasoning that if things keep going as they are, giving birth increases suffering is perfectly valid and I see no reason to randomly say it isn'tBut, as I've already said, this line of thinking is ridiculous. — Πετροκότσυφας
I'm starting to think that you choose to ignore this.
35m — Πετροκότσυφας
That's false. There is plenty of reason to have children. If no one gives birth for 10 years you will suffer a slow and painful death of starvation due to not having enough people to work. — khaled
Who are you to decide at what point unpleasantness can become traumatic — khaled
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.