if i kill a person without family and firends, without him noticing it, i'm doing something good? — Nicolás Navia
is like if the earth just dissapear without anybody noticing it would be good — Nicolás Navia
probably killing myself would be moral — Nicolás Navia
That's pretty much the central premise of negative utilitarian thinking. Accepting this premise, how might you refute the position of antinatalism? — khaled
incorrect. It has the quality of there being no pain. That's the whole point. An empty bucket has the quality of having no water in it. It doesn't have "no qualities"Since the latter cannot have any qualities t — Benkei
P1: One has no right to inflict undue suffering on another
P2: Giving birth is equivalent to inflicting undue suffering on another as it results in the creation of a creature that will definitely suffer as opposed to the absence of such a creature in which case there will be nothing to suffer
C: Giving birth is immoral — khaled
For myself I have a hard time accepting that I'm inflicting anything on someone who does not exist. Birth will result in a life that will include suffering in it. But without birth there isn't anyone at all -- and hence nothing to consider within a moral light. It is only after birth that someone becomes a morally significant being worth consideration. Else, it's just an imaginary character. — Moliere
But something else we do not reason morally about are either things or beings which do not exist. So Harry Potter, for instance, is not the sort of thing which we should reason morally about. So far I don't think this is controversial. — Moliere
In your scenario 1, though, there simply is no person to reason about. What's so different about a child you decided not to have and a fictional character? — Moliere
But as a consequence of not having a child there simply is no person that is either harmed or saved -- and that's my point. — Moliere
So what would be appropriate would be to tend to the needs of children that are actual -- but if there aren't any children, then what's all the fuss about anyway? You're thinking of what is not actual as if it were actual. — Moliere
The person does not need to be born to know that it is being prevented from harm. If they are negative utilitarian, then it was only good that harm didn't occur. — schopenhauer1
no antinatalist that I know of wants to bite the bullet of the complete extinction of life through lots of suffering in a short period of time. — Πετροκότσυφας
But without birth there isn't anyone at all -- and hence nothing to consider within a moral light — Moliere
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