But then, on the other hand, if we remove the radical change dream, then few of these guru guys could make a living selling books etc. Maybe the radical change dream is necessary to keep such writers in the marketplace of ideas? — Jake
You haven't answered my question. How many awakened individuals have you met? How do you know they are awakened (assuming you have met some or at least one)? — Janus
So, then I must conclude from the above, that these men are con artists. — Posty McPostface
On one of my landscape projects I once sub-contracted to a brushwood fencing contractor who was a disciple of Da Free John. He invited me to come along to a meeting. It all seemed phony to me, but he was a nice and sincere person who genuinely believed that Da Free John was the current 'world teacher' and that he was on the path to awakening. — Janus
As example, as I understand the story, Krishnamurti had an affair with his best friend's wife and then blamed his friend's distress on his friend's lack of enlightenment etc. Is that radical change? Sounds more like being really stupid and very human to me. — Jake
it's not a dismissive attitude because I am open to hearing good reasons to support belief in what you say I am merely dismissing... — Janus
How incredibly, outrageously presumptuous of you! — Janus
But that book provided insights into Krishnamurti as a man, as distinct from Krishnamurti the teacher. — Wayfarer
I agree; I do think people chase the awakening "dream" or myth for emotional reasons. I have done it myself! And there's nothing wrong with chasing things for emotional reasons, if you want to; but in this context (of philosophical discussion) if you want to say there is more to it than merely chasing it for emotional reasons then the onus is on you to provide an account of that purported "more". — Janus
I don't expect or even want to convince anyone to give up their beliefs because they can';t provide rationally supportable reasons for them, and I don't even expect (although I do want) them to admit that it is really only an emotional matter, so I will keep asking the hard questions of anyone who wants to claim anything like "objective esoteric knowledge". — Janus
BTW who is Diana Lane? Is she someone I should begin lusting after? — Janus
[My highlighting.]I don't deny that more radical transformations do, rarely, take place, but I don't believe they can reliably be achieved by any deliberate form of disciplined search. — Janus
it's not a dismissive attitude because I am open to hearing good reasons to support belief in what you say I am merely dismissing... — Janus
What I meant to say was in reaction to this:
How incredibly, outrageously presumptuous of you! — Janus
which in turn was a response to this post here. When I said that it seems it had not 'borne fruit', what I meant was that you seem to be saying you had practiced meditation for 18 years, yet you think all spiritual teachers - and teachings? - are 'phony'. Perhaps I was misinterpreting? — Wayfarer
Yes, they do generally seem to be rather restricted in their behavior and their moral attitudes to the human behavior; particularly in regards to homosexuality, the pleasures of the flesh, forms of entertainment, intoxicants, partying hard and so on. Of course, I have no doubt there are exceptions! — Janus
Yeah, nothing more or less than pure compassion and harmony of the spirit. — Posty McPostface
I wonder whether, given the immense diversity of human nature, one person's harmony of the spirit is not another person's disharmony. — Janus
I think, that the Buddhist is very sensitive towards the affect of others, given their esteemed 'compassion'. — Posty McPostface
Yes, but it often seems to be somewhat patronizing, to come from a sense of superiority as though "We know better". — Janus
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