Happiness not truth is a pathless land.

Shawn

In one of my old threads, I mentioned a quote from Krishnamurti that 'truth is a pathless land'.

I have come to realize that this quote would reverberate more within an individual reading it had K said, "Happiness is a pathless land."

Now, many people come to see psychologists and psychiatrists and are never told this message. I mean, how cruel a message that (ought to) be conceived to any suffering individual that it's for them to decide what ought to give them meaning. Perhaps, logotherapy is really the only therapy that one ought to offer to any individual.

Looking at the issue from the sidelines, it is in our very nature to listen to authority. From upbringing to adulthood we are taught by others how we ought to behave or even (gasp) think about the world. This echo the saying by Krishnamurti or perhaps even Nietzsche that there needs to be a radical revolution in thought (or individualization or socialization) to apply such a message.

What do you think?

christian2017

I read about Krishnamurti. I disagree with both truth is a pathless land and happiness is a pathless land. I think social norms are better for everybody. I believe that even ancient hunter gatherers had social norms but instead of worrying about some tyranicall government or corporation they had to worry about Tigers and bears and only had spears to defend themselves. (oversimplification)

People who don't have a sense of community are statistically shown to be more depressed than people who right wrong or indifferent are more individualistic.

I like sushi

We must be honest with ourselves and, contrary as it sounds, we’re never likely to be sure when we’re lying to ourselves or not.

“Happiness” is a term to me that is as empty as saying I “like” something. It’s a social signal, a surface analogy of experience once it’s passed by.

Slowly but surely medicine is starting to work toward treating people on an individual basis. With technologies today it is slowly becoming a more viable approach to treatment. Within the realms of psychologists the personal connection with a therapist has always been an import one. If you feel the need for that kind of support, or you’re just curious, then taste the different flavours before settling on one - some will be detrimental to your health if you judge one trying to help you as the only option you have.

Shawn

If you feel the need for that kind of support, or you’re just curious, then taste the different flavours before settling on one - some will be detrimental to your health if you judge one trying to help you as the only option you have. — I like sushi

I've taken logotherapy, Stoicism, and CBT as my claw and wrench towards personal and interpersonal issues.

praxis

In one of my old threads, I mentioned a quote from Krishnamurti that 'truth is a pathless land'.

I have come to realize that this quote would reverberate more within an individual reading it had K said, "Happiness is a pathless land." — Wallows

Truth is a pathless land makes sense to me because if you’re truely interested in the truth you’ll follow it wherever it leads, and it tends to be disillusioning, which tends to be nihilistic.

Happiness is not a pathless land. The path is so well worn most don’t need a guide.

Shawn

Happiness is not a pathless land. The path is so well worn most don’t need a guide. — praxis

What do you mean by that? Is this just stating the same truth that we are acquainted with? If so why are there so many unhappy people?

praxis

Though many people want to be happy I don’t think that many set out to be happy. Most just struggle to get by, and those that don’t need to struggle tend to seek money, status, pleasures, distractions, and things of that nature. Does anyone set out with the life goal of being happy? If most did, I doubt society would be as materialistic as is is.

Shawn

Does anyone set out with the life goal of being happy? — praxis

Presumably, philosophers do; but, the Hoi polloi think they ought to be ignored because of their idealism.

If most did, I doubt society would be as materialistic as is is. — praxis

What do you mean?

praxis

↪Wallows

Being materialistic is not conducive to happiness, essentially.

Shawn

↪praxis

This doesn't really help. I mean, as a juxtaposition think about the fine line between the Stoic school of thought and Cynicism.

Is the confusion clear now?

Wayfarer

I have come to realize that this quote would reverberate more within an individual reading it had K said, "Happiness is a pathless land." — Wallows

Well, you might like this aphorism from Thich Naht Hanh - ‘There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way’.

Shawn

↪Wayfarer

Do you know the way?

Wayfarer

So what if I said Yes. How’s that going to help. ‘Hey this guy on the forum who says....’

Actually, one point that ought to be mentioned in respect of the Krishnamurti quote. Straight after he dismisses ‘paths’ he introduces another analogy. So there might not be ‘a path’ but there’s certainly ‘a climb’. Important thing to get.

Shawn

↪Wayfarer

But I prefer to go through the mountain rather than over it contrary to what K says about climbing it. It's the shortest pathway to overcome.

Wayfarer

↪Wallows

Is there a remote for that?

Shawn

↪Wayfarer

Yeah, I'm just digging away. Why do you need a remote?

Wayfarer

Sorry for being facetious. :sad:

Shawn

Sorry for being facetious. :sad: — Wayfarer

All good. I'm slow with jokes anyway.

Wallow wallow.

Heracloitus

I prefer to think truth as a multiplicity of paths that each one of us must carve out.

Don't know much about krishnamurti. Was he a non-dualist 'thinker' ?

praxis

This doesn't really help. I mean, as a juxtaposition think about the fine line between the Stoic school of thought and Cynicism.

Is the confusion clear now? — Wallows

Now I’m confused.

With an understanding that materialistic values tend to be shallow when it comes to meaning, and meaning is an essential facet of happiness, there should be no confusion. But this is not news for you, clearly, having read Victor Frankel and studied the stoics.

Shawn

With an understanding that materialistic values tend to be shallow when it comes to meaning, and meaning is an essential facet of happiness, there should be no confusion. — praxis

Well, the Cynics proposed that we do away with ALL wealth and comfort and expose ourselves to voluntary discomfort. Do you think they were actually happy people? Seems like the cool-headed Stoic is at an advantage here.

Changeling

I just wanted to listen to this again

petrichor

People who don't have a sense of community are statistically shown to be more depressed than people who right wrong or indifferent are more individualistic. — christian2017

Herd warmth certainly feels good in some ways. But should our lives be about staying comfortable?

petrichor

"Happiness is a pathless land."
...
Perhaps, logotherapy is really the only therapy that one ought to offer to any individual. — Wallows

Ironic that you say happiness is a pathless land and then suggest that logotherapy is maybe the one true path to happiness! :razz:

petrichor

But I prefer to go through the mountain rather than over it contrary to what K says about climbing it. It's the shortest pathway to overcome. — Wallows

Ah, but the point is to be on top of the mountain, with the big world-transcending view, isn't it? To tunnel through the mountain leaves you still at its base, a position pretty much like the one you started with!

And as for shortest paths, if you want to get to the other side of the mountain, a path through the mountain rather than over it is certainly shorter in terms of distance. But is it shorter in terms of time? Effort?

Louco

I think it is more than a question of authority; truth being pathless means also that we ourselves can't establish paths upon this land.
How could someone say that, and at the same time have a high regard for human culture? (Since it seems to me that when you say truth is pathless you throw all culture, all transmission of knowledge, away).
Ignoring the misanthropic option, we are left with a saying that is at odds with, for instance, the teaching of mathematics. What would be a class in geometry but a guided tour around the land of truth?

So when K. talks about pathlessness, he is not talking about (lacking) transmission of knowledge. Perhaps he is referencing a qualitative difference between learning and truth-seeking: learning happens, while truth simply is. Man changes, truth is static.

Shawn

Ironic that you say happiness is a pathless land and then suggest that logotherapy is maybe the one true path to happiness! :razz: — petrichor

Yes, it is a paradox. One I don't know how to surmount.

Shawn

To tunnel through the mountain leaves you still at its base, a position pretty much like the one you started with! — petrichor

But, I might find something interesting? Like gold instead of a dead corpse on the death zone or littered bottles of oxygen. Hehe.

praxis

Well, the Cynics proposed that we do away with ALL wealth and comfort and expose ourselves to voluntary discomfort. Do you think they were actually happy people? Seems like the cool-headed Stoic is at an advantage here. — Wallows

I don't know anything about the Cynics besides a quick synopsis, but I would agree that regularly getting outside of our comfort zone may be an essential part of happiness, in that it's necessary for growth or development. Stagnation tends to be meaningless and leading to degeneration.

Shawn

↪praxis

Something about that stinks of male chauvinism. Don't you think?

praxis

↪Wallows

I'm confused again.

Happiness not truth is a pathless land.

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