• Fooloso4
    3.8k


    You cite an article from August 20, 2021, ten months before the June 8, 2022 hearings began. The committee hearings did provide evidence that it was a coordinated attack.
  • Fooloso4
    3.8k


    What is the alternative?
  • ssu
    6.7k
    They would have embraced and sung revolution songs together as they tore down American democracy.NOS4A2
    That's correct.

    The only way to destroy American democracy is to say that you are protecting it from a clear and obvious threat. And then really believe in what you are saying (to be clear, obvious and true).

    In my view in January 6th Trump could have made a self-coup, assuming he would have the objective and the leadership qualities starting from forming a real junta, controlling at least his own security entourage (which drove him off, which is hilarious) and then going forward with emergency powers until the "threat to the democratic system" would have been dealt with. Then have the ability to stage fake trials.

    But he didn't do that.

    He didn't put a no-nonsense guy like general Flynn in charge in the military and have ready other supporting officers to replace the joint chiefs of the armed forces when they would have resigned. No, he relied on his lawyers and some pillow guy. As if these kind if things are done by legal loopholes. Any kind of real self-coup would have to have real planning, solid backers in the government believing the cause to be righteous, which would mean that the main conspirator would have to have some leadership skills.

    Which we know the very able orator and populist Trump doesn't have. What he would have had is fervent die hard supporters on the street backing his self-coup. One cannot underestimate their role...if Trump would have walked to Capitol Hill with them. And the strategic surprise: people simply wouldn't have fathomed a self-coup happening in the US. The nation simply would have been in self denial afterwards.

    To do real self-coup, on live television, Saddam Hussein actually shows the way:


    But of course it was the usual Trump train wreck. Because what else does Trump do?

    And as pathetic the whole debacle was, the worry that it can happen again is alarmist. And frantically sounding the Trump alarm bells just alienates people, when actual problems of the present should be the focus of discussion.

    Nope, the US will just have awful elections, especially Presidential ones.
  • praxis
    5.6k


    FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said.

    I think their plan was to beat up policemen, prey, take selfies, break stuff… stuff that morons generally do.
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    You cite show trial.



    The only way to destroy American democracy is to say that you are protecting it from a clear and obvious threat. And then really believe in what you are saying (to be clear, obvious and true).


    Biden’s whole theme was unification and decency but he has done the exact opposite. Now he is ramping up his rhetoric, treating his opponents like domestic terrorists. He has already sent his goons to rifle through Trump’s documents, perhaps worried what sort of info Trump had on him. Since we now know the FBI was working to suppress info that would reflect badly on Biden, I’m going to conclude that this deep state shit has been occurring even before he became president, and he is only its most recent hydra head.
  • Tate
    1.4k
    He's right, though. These days if a person claims to be a Republican, I just assume they sympathize with neo-Nazis as Trump did.
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    And you’d be wrong. But no one’s going to stop you going through life like that. In fact, it’s encouraged.
  • Fooloso4
    3.8k
    You cite show trial.NOS4A2

    The investigation uncovered FACTS, which are not to be mistaken for "alternative facts", that is, alternatives to the facts.
  • Tate
    1.4k
    And you’d be wrong. But no one’s going to stop you going through life like that. In fact, it’s encouraged.NOS4A2

    It's called being rational.
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    They’ve lied.
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    It’s called being led by propaganda. You yourself admitted you believe Trump sympathized with neo-Nazis.
  • Michael
    11.9k
    Now he is ramping up his rhetoric, treating his opponents like domestic terrorists.NOS4A2

    You sure like to engage in your own rhetoric. This is what he said:

    Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our Republic.

    Now, I want to be very clear, very clear up front. Not every Republican, not even the majority of Republicans, are MAGA Republicans. Not every Republican embraces their extreme ideology. I know, because I’ve been able to work with these mainstream Republicans.

    ...

    And here, in my view, is what is true: MAGA Republicans do not respect the Constitution. They do not believe in the rule of law. They do not recognize the will of the people. They refuse to accept the results of a free election, and they’re working right now as I speak in state after state to give power to decide elections in America to partisans and cronies, empowering election deniers to undermine democracy itself.

    MAGA forces are determined to take this country backwards, backwards to an America where there is no right to choose, no right to privacy, no right to contraception, no right to marry who you love. They promote authoritarian leaders, and they fanned the flames of political violence that are a threat to our personal rights, to the pursuit of justice, to the rule of law, to the very soul of this country.

    So, no, he isn't treating his opponents like domestic terrorists. He's saying that a specific subset of his opponents are trying to undermine the principles of democracy and restrict personal rights.

    He has already sent his goons to rifle through Trump’s documents, perhaps worried what sort of info Trump had on him.NOS4A2

    There is no evidence that he directed the search, and no evidence that he even knew about it beforehand. And they weren't there to search Trump's documents but to search for the Government's documents which Trump was illegally retaining. And you're inventing a motivation.

    Since we now know the FBI was working to suppress info that would reflect badly on BidenNOS4A2

    If you're referring to the Facebook stuff, they just warned them to be on the lookout for Russian propaganda. It was Facebook that made the decision about which specific stories to suppress.
  • Fooloso4
    3.8k
    They’ve lied.NOS4A2

    Right, whatever supports Trump is the truth, whatever exposes him and what he has done is a lie.

    Even people like William Barr seem no longer able to maintain this illusion.

    Humpty Trumpty had a great fall. And all the would be king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Trumpty together again.
  • Tate
    1.4k
    It’s called being led by propaganda. You yourself admitted you believe Trump sympathized with neo-Nazis.NOS4A2

    Didn't he?
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    Yes he is treating his opponents like domestic terrorists. No anti-Trump analysis of Biden’s’ words is going to convince me otherwise.

    There is some evidence Biden knew and even signed off on it.

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/23/biden-called-in-fbi-to-look-at-classified-trump-documents/

    I’m referring to the Facebook stuff and the whistleblower reports.
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    Didn't he?

    Quote him.
  • Tate
    1.4k
    Quote him.NOS4A2

    He accepted the endorsement of the KKK. Don't need any quotes.
  • Michael
    11.9k
    No anti-Trump analysis of Biden’s’ words is going to convince me otherwise.NOS4A2

    That much is clear. I don't respond to you to because I think I'll finally get through to you. I know you're a lost cause. I respond to you to for the sake of others, combatting your rhetoric/misinformation/propaganda.

    There is some evidence Biden knew and even signed off on it.

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/23/biden-called-in-fbi-to-look-at-classified-trump-documents/
    NOS4A2

    You're referring to this?

    The May 10 missive by Acting Archivist Debra Steidel Wall to Trump attorney Evan Corcoran — published late Monday by JustTheNews — confirms that the White House counsel’s office, “affirming a request from the Department of Justice supported by an FBI letterhead memorandum,” asked the National Archives on April 11 to “provide the FBI access to the 15 boxes for its review within seven days.”

    The White House asking the National Archives in April to give access to the FBI to the boxes returned In January is evidence that Biden knew and signed off on the search warrant issued in August? You really are reaching.

    I'm referring to the Facebook stuff and the whistleblower reports.NOS4A2

    FBI responds to Mark Zuckerberg's claims on Joe Rogan show about Hunter Biden's laptop

    Zuckerberg said that while the FBI didn't specifically name the New York Post article about Hunter Biden, it "fit the pattern" of what the FBI warned about.

    He defended the agency, calling it a "legitimate institution," which prompted him to take the warning seriously.

    The story was allowed to remain on Facebook, but with limited exposure.

    In a statement, the FBI said it routinely provides entities of potential threat information, but it "cannot ask, or direct, companies to take action on information received.

    Meta responded via Twitter saying quote, "the FBI shared general warnings about foreign interference, nothing specific about Hunter Biden."
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/politics/donald-trump-disavows-david-duke-kkk/index.html



    That much is clear. I don't respond to you to because I think I'll finally get through to you. I know you're a lost cause. I respond to you to for the sake of others, combatting your rhetoric/misinformation/propaganda.

    You employ propaganda in order to combat propaganda. Fair enough.

    The White House asking the National Archives in May to give access to the FBI to the boxes returned In January is evidence that Biden knew and signed off on the search warrant issued in August? You really are reaching.

    Yes it is evidence. And you’re working overtime to cover for them.

    Timothy Thibault, the FBI agent alleged to have interfered with an investigation into Hunter Biden, was assigned by the Washington Field Office as “point man” to manage whistleblower Tony Bobulinski, the first son’s former business partner, before the 2020 election — but he suppressed his damning revelations, sources say.

    Bobulinski spent over five hours secretly being interviewed by the FBI on Oct. 23, 2020, about his inside knowledge of then-presidential candidate Joe Biden’s involvement in his son’s business deals with China.

    The previous day he had revealed in a press conference that Joe Biden was the “Big Guy” due to get a 10% cut of a lucrative joint venture with Chinese energy firm CEFC, according to an email found on Hunter’s abandoned laptop.

    Bobulinski gave the FBI the contents of three cellphones containing encrypted messages between Hunter and his business partners, along with emails and financial documents detailing the Biden family’s corrupt influence peddling operation in foreign countries during Joe’s vice presidency.

    But his evidence appears to have fallen into the same black hole at the FBI as Hunter’s laptop, never to be seen again.

    FBI agent Timothy Thibault hid intel from whistleblower on Hunter and the ‘Big Guy’ Joe Biden
  • Fooloso4
    3.8k


    Ken Klukowski, co-author of "The Blueprint: Obama's Plan to Subvert the Constitution and Build an Imperial Presidency", attempts to defend himself. Solid evidence we cannot believe any of the January 6th committee findings.
  • Tate
    1.4k

    He can definitely talk out of both sides of his mouth.
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    You claimed he sympathized with neo-Nazis and accepted the endorsement of the KKK.
  • Michael
    11.9k
    Now compare Biden's speech with Trump's recent rally:

    ... this election is a referendum on the corruption and extremism of Joe Biden and the radical Democrat party.

    If you want to stop this destruction of America, you must vote Republican you gotta get out

    ...

    He's an enemy of the state, you know that? The enemy of the state is him and the group that control him, which is circling around him, 'Do this. do that Joe, you're going to do this Joe."

    ...

    The FBI and the Justice Department have become vicious monsters. controlled by radical left scoundrels lawyers and the media who tell them what to do—you people right there—and when to do it.


    ...

    Before our very eyes, our beloved country is being taken over by the very people who turned democracies into dictatorships and into ultimately, ruination.

    ...

    Think of this, think how bad they are, think how evil they are.

    ...

    But this battle is not about me. This is a struggle for the very fate of our republic. Our movement is fighting against a corrupt group of unelected tyrants who believe they can wield absolute power over you, with the help of a willing and very corrupt media.

    They think the deep state, not the citizens should be the true masters of this country.

    ...

    We have to smash the grip of his vile and vindictive political class. We have to clean house in Washington, D.C. and we have to restore government for the people.

    If we do not, our republic and, indeed, our country will be destroyed and we will never be able to do what is called a comeback. You won't be able to do it. It'll never come back again.

    ...

    The 2020 election was rigged, and now our country is being destroyed by people who got into office through cheating and through fraud.

    ...

    Under a Democrat, all the streets of our great cities are drenched in the blood of innocent victims.

    ...

    The Radical Left Democrat Party is not, in my opinion, a 50 percent party within our country. They're against God, guns, oil, law enforcement, voter ID, tax cuts, regulation cuts, the Constitution and they're against our founding fathers. But other than that, actually, they're quite good. The way they win is to cheat in elections. I really believe that. How can you be against all of those things and for some of the things that therefore and be considered a 50/50 party? I don't believe it.

    They cheat like hell on elections all over the country, and they're really good at it.

    ...

    Together we are standing up against some of the most menacing forces, entrenched interests and vicious opponents our people have ever seen. Despite great outside dangers, our greatest threat remains the sick, sinister and evil people from within our own country. But no matter how big or powerful the corrupt radical left Democrats are—and they are corrupt and they are powerful. We have to make them much less powerful.
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    Well deserved.

    Do you still believe Trump was giving away the nuclear codes to Saudi Arabia? Or was that propaganda/misinformation?
  • Tate
    1.4k
    You claimed he sympathized with neo-Nazis and accepted the endorsement of the KKK.NOS4A2

    True. Are you trying to gaslight me?
  • Michael
    11.9k
    You employ propaganda in order to combat propaganda.NOS4A2

    I employ facts. But nice of you to admit that I am indeed combatting propaganda.
  • ssu
    6.7k
    Biden’s whole theme was unification and decency but he has done the exact opposite.NOS4A2
    Because it sells in America.

    Polarization rules.
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    You believed and tried to sell the idea Trump was selling nuclear codes to Saudi Arabia, perhaps without knowing they change the nuclear codes from administration to administration. Was this combatting propaganda or spreading misinformation in your eyes?
  • NOS4A2
    6.5k


    I love me some polarization, to be honest.
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.