• 180 Proof
    2k
    Wouldn't the lesser evil be a third party?Harry Hindu
    Not at all. In a SWING STATE (like Georgia, where I live, has become this cycle), Democratic Party candidates for congress and the presidency are "the lesser evil".
  • Saphsin
    228
    You should still sign up to vote Democrat down the ballot for non-swing states even if you don't care for the Presidency. That's what I'm doing in New Jersey.

    Honestly, the fact that many people are stuck on wasting the rest of the year discussing what could be decided upon in 10 minutes is proof they're overly committed to insignificant performative grievances instead of winning the war towards policy goals, the kind of thing mainstream liberals tend to be rightly criticized for. It's being consumed by electoral extravaganza, just because you're doing such in an upside down fashion doesn't mean you're not.
  • Harry Hindu
    3.5k
    SWING STATE180 Proof
    Terms used by ppl who've been indoctrinated to think in black and white, right and left, etc., as if there are only two directions/positions to swing.
  • Saphsin
    228
    Third Parties like the Green Party are notorious among activists going back decades for wasting all their mental energy and funds every 4 years on the Presidential campaign when it's statistically guaranteed to failure by the nature of the winner-take-all electoral system. To the extent some of the members try to take power in local politics, they have been incompetent failures with a few exceptions, perhaps because all the competent people stay away from third parties because they don't want to waste their time.
  • Pfhorrest
    3.4k
    Voting third party is entirely about sending a message to the main two parties. Until we abolish FPTP third parties mathematically cannot be significant.

    If you live in a swing state (which @Harry Hindu just means a closely contested state, where it's not a near-certainty that any particular party is going to win), you can't afford to send that message; in that situation voting third party only helps the other of the two main parties besides the one you would have preferred.

    If you live in a non-swing state -- a state where one party or another is nearly certain to win -- then regardless of which of the two main parties you would prefer, the biggest impact you can have is to vote third party. Because you're not going to change who wins your state, but you will add to the numbers that the parties look at to make sure they're getting/staying ahead. If e.g. Democrats see a lot of their votes went to Greens this election, they'll get the message that they need to appeal more to Green-leaning voters. And then those voters might actually have a Democrat they would honestly prefer to vote for.
  • Saphsin
    228
    “Hmph, I’m not going to vote for you, so turn more Left-wing if you want my vote” says a tiny handful of people voting Green, and somehow the Democratic party elite care enough to listen and change their strategy.

    Is this an actual political dynamic with an empirical basis that activists can use to their advantage, or is this a cult-like wishful thinking.

    I frankly don’t care enough to spend much time making a fuss about it, the main reason I don’t vote 3rd party is because I think it’ll be better for the Green Party to die permanently to not distract new incoming activists.
  • Pfhorrest
    3.4k
    “Hmph, I’m not going to vote for you, so turn more Left-wing if you want my vote” says a tiny handful of people voting Green, and somehow the Democratic party elite care enough to listen and change their strategy.Saphsin

    If it’s a tiny handful, no, but if enough people do it, of course.

    The alternative for someone in a safe station is to have zero impact at all. I’ll take negligible impact over zero impact.
  • Saphsin
    228
    The Democrat elite are extremely incompetent and out of touch with American citizens, they’d functionally would lose the election than put real effort reaching out to new voters. And if they actually were competent, they wouldn’t be so silly to give up their interests for a small number of people who aren’t doing anything real to pressure them. The fact is everyone else looks at third parties as spoiler parties and will hate you for associating with them, surely a nice way to gain political influence.

    This isn’t speculation, the Greens have repeated this strategy going back decades. It will only gather a tiny number of votes, and it will certainly be a waste of time.
  • bcccampello
    39
    After the Americans twice accepted to have as president a total stranger with false documents, why can't they also accept a mentally disabled person?
  • Harry Hindu
    3.5k
    Voting third party is entirely about sending a message to the main two parties.Pfhorrest
    Ultimately, the solution I'd ike to see is the abolishment of all political parties (group-think).
  • ssu
    3.3k
    Ultimately, the solution I'd ike to see is the abolishment of all political parties (group-think).Harry Hindu

    I would dare to say, even if the response is hostility from others here, that in a republic with representative democracy, the political party system works fairly well.

    Assuming there isn't either too many parties or just two as in the US. Or just one, which simply isn't a democracy. Two parties simply cannot represent all the voters while having two hundred parties will make the system incapable of functioning. A party (or duopoly) that has fixed hold on the political system will create corruption and alienate the party from the voters.
  • 180 Proof
    2k
    t-minus 23 days :mask:

    An anti-fascist vote is NOT an endorsement of the Democratic Party — Cornel West
  • 180 Proof
    2k
    Almost, should be, but not quite there yet.
  • ssu
    3.3k
    Third Parties like the Green Party are notorious among activists going back decades for wasting all their mental energy and funds every 4 years on the Presidential campaign when it's statistically guaranteed to failure by the nature of the winner-take-all electoral system. To the extent some of the members try to take power in local politics, they have been incompetent failures with a few exceptions, perhaps because all the competent people stay away from third parties because they don't want to waste their time.Saphsin
    This is true. Ah, to get a presidential candidate to "get people to notice the party". It's psychology: people see everywhere just how fed up with the two ruling parties, want change in an instant and think it could be possible. How about getting people to notice the party at first on the local level at city and municipal level? Likely best way would to many sister parties starting at the state level, as the US is made of quite different places.
  • 180 Proof
    2k
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/404841 (April 2020)

    Biden-Harris
    • Wins Wisconsin
    • Wins Pennsylvania
    • Wins Michigan

    (• Wins Florida)
    (• Wins Arizona)

    Electoral College votes
    • Biden-Harris > 313 (min. 273) :up:
    • Trump-Pence > 218 (max. 258)

    US Senate
    • Dems +4 seats (or more)

    US House
    • Dems +15 seats (or more)
    — my 2020 predictions
    T-minus 21 days. :victory: :mask:
  • Benkei
    3.5k
    After Biden wins, what are the chances Trump ends up in jail?
  • 180 Proof
    2k
    Quite unlikely, I think. His children and other sychophants are another matter all together. If "Individual-1" doesn't die first of COVID-19 or from being murdered by an aggrieved "sucker or loser", then he'll have ample opportunity to throw everybody (except daughter-wife Ivanka) under the proverbial bus in order to stay out of prison. Maybe, however, the Kremlin will 'Novichok him' just to "tie-up" loose ends (unless he & his crime family instead emigrate to Russia as "political exiles"). And then there's The Hague ... crimes against humanity, etc (re: refugee babies & children 'kidnapped' from their parents and held captive in cages at the southern US border; public health malfeasance and criminal neglect of a pandemic accounting for 10s-100s of thousands dead in the US alone caused by - but for - his policies; etc).

    What I really hope for is President Biden to appoint Hillary Clinton to be Attorney General just to Make That Old Fat Cheeto-face Killer Clown Lose His Shit Daily while hunkered-down in whatever Trump "Shithole" Tower or Golf Resort he still "owns" waiting for the FBI (or the "suckers and losers" at the gate!) to haul his bloated, wheezing, carcass out to prison (or a waiting noose).
  • Baden
    10.9k
    What I really hope for is President Biden appointing Hillary Clinton to be Attorney General just to Make That Old Fat Cheeto-face Killer Clown Lose His Shit Daily180 Proof

    I like the way you think. :naughty:
  • Benkei
    3.5k
    Also, it might be a good time to sell Alaska to Russia. After all,
    They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska — Sarah Palin
  • Benkei
    3.5k
    Wall Street is preparing for a likely Biden victory, however. Shares of the gun makers Smith & Wesson and Sturm Ruger have both rallied around 8% since late September. Experts predict a surge of gun sales if Democrats win control of the Senate from Republicans, giving them majorities in both houses of Congress and making it easier to approve gun control legislation.
  • Baden
    10.9k
    Biden wins by 6-7 points nationally and by 2-3 in Pennsylvania. Florida is messy and doesn't get called for days or even weeks, but it doesn't matter because Biden sweeps enough swing states to take the electoral college. There ya go. This is what's going to happen.

    (This is presuming no more 'October surprises' for either candidate.)
  • Echarmion
    1.5k


    Unless Biden is clearly ahead after election night or its clear the Republicans loose the Senate, expect the result to be disputed. The electors of the electoral college elect the president, and there are plenty of ways to throw a wrench into that process.
  • 180 Proof
    2k
    Florida & Arizona have early voting for 3 weeks or more until Election Day. Both states are counting as ballots are received and tabulations of totals are being kept secret until polls close on November 3rd. As of yesterday, multiple news sources report that +21 million votes have already been cast in 42 out of 50 states (c16% of the total vote in 2016) compared to early vote of about 2 million at this time 4 years ago. High turnout almost always favors Dems (e.g. 2018 midterms (highest voter turnout since 1914!), 2017-2020 special & gubernatorial elections :point: ALL WERE REFERENDA ON tRUMP PRIOR TO IMPEACHMENT, PANDEMIC, SEVERE RECESSION, ETC), thus widespread Voter Suppression tactics by GOP state legistlatures & election officials. On Election Day night, likely very late EST, the results from Florida & (in the wee hours the next morning) Arizona will be known. If Biden wins either Florida or Arizona or both, then ... Game Over, Donald. Go to fuckin' jail / hell (if COVID-19 doesn't kill him first). :victory: :mask:
  • Benkei
    3.5k
    I have my fingers crossed.
  • Ansiktsburk
    84
    Seeing this slightly viral video
    https://youtu.be/flp7gKg5G4E

    Do you have to be conservative to be a republican? A Scandinavian asks.
  • Benkei
    3.5k
    Republicans have pretty much claimed the Conservative label where Democrats are Liberal or Progressive. It leads to typically weird juxtapositions in political life. BLM is driven by progressives and Republicans tend to distance themselves from it, while in essence the demand is a Conservative one: equality before the law.

    That's much more to do with branding and identity politics, on both sides (!), than actual policy based on a political theory.
  • Ansiktsburk
    84
    its so weird to hear the woman, it could be me speaking upto a point slightly more than halfway through the video where she suddenly starts talking about “pro-life”, conservative genders views and stuff, in a kind of hesitantly religious way. Did not sound good. First part with schooling I was with her but towards the end she lost me completely.

    Voting for Biden or Trump seems like chosing between the plague and the cholera, to use a Scandinavian saying.
  • Benkei
    3.5k
    I just skimmed it. If she can't set out her opinion in less than 5 minutes, she's wasting my time. It's not as if she's teaching a subject.
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