unenlightened
3.6k
Let's say it's 50/50. — NKBJ
Let's say I've been gently boiling you in oil for a few years - for your own good mind - and not enough to do more than make your life unbearable. And let's say, because you are a bit sceptical and I am optimistic, that a few more years of constant agony will give a 50 % chance of recovery. "My argument stands" doesn't really do very much here. Any price is worth paying to someone who doesn't have to pay the price. — unenlightened
How would you think if this was about cancer patients? Would you allow a patient to die without interfering in their cancer because the treatment is "only" a 50/50 chance and chemo sucks? — NKBJ
And, of course, YOU want to be able to decide if a person is "cognizant enough...just as I am sure you would want ME to be the judge if YOU are...right? — Frank Apisa
I suppose you mean even in cases when the patient is underage and probably not the best judge of her own interests. — NKBJ
We're going in circles and I'm not sure I see a way out of it. — NKBJ
VagabondSpectre
1.6k
And, of course, YOU want to be able to decide if a person is "cognizant enough...just as I am sure you would want ME to be the judge if YOU are...right? — Frank Apisa
Shirley, I would never!
It's not for "me" or "us"; in this case it's for her legal guardians to determine, and also perhaps for trained and regulated health and mental health professionals. — VagabondSpectre
The way out is to see that rigid thinking will not answer — unenlightened
On something as personal as this...it is for HER to decide...not any regulated anything. — Frank Apisa
I see your line of thinking as just as rigid as you see mine. — NKBJ
VagabondSpectre
1.6k
On something as personal as this...it is for HER to decide...not any regulated anything. — Frank Apisa
What if she was 12 instead of 17? (not a rhetorical question)
I'm not taking issue with the principle that individuals should have the right to make decisions for themselves, I'm raising the possibility that some people (such as a naive child) might not actually be intelligent/aware/cognizant enough to make the best decision.
I'm not denying that this particular 17 year old was cognizant enough to make her own choice (it's a complicated case that would require investigation to firmly judge), instead I'm going straight to the crux of the issue that the thread is based on: extreme youth makes suicide more controversial because we expect youth to correlate with naivete (and future potential). The older we make the woman in our example, the less intuitively controversial it becomes.
As I said in the post to which you originally responded, it's a complicated issue and we would have to look at the details of each specific case; there's no correct answer that must hold true for all cases. — VagabondSpectre
I took your post to question my motives, as if I truly don't care about the traumatized, but I'm just more interested in promoting my brand of conservatism. My point is that I'm interested in the philosophical component of this issue and that's why the focus is on the ethical issue, not on my expressions of sympathy for the young girl and her family. While the latter is humane and appropriate in other contexts, it's not part of this discussion.
Anyway, all of this is an aside and ad hom. — Hanover
Medical ethics are not amenable to this one size fits all absolutist mentality. Life is complicated and issues require nuanced thinking — unenlightened
are you willing to concede that had Noa's parents or had a judge intervened on her behalf and she still lived today, still as painfully as the day her life ended, that you'd be in agreement with the intervention? — Hanover
We do our best. — Hanover
I would too as a first instinct. I retreat from there based on what I understand to be a situation that has seen interventions for years and years. They did their best, and failed, and failed, and failed. Sometimes the only best left is to admit that your best is just not good enough. Cures are the best, but sometimes there is no cure, and palliative care is all that is left.I lean heavily for her intervention... — Hanover
Except children, apparently. — Isaac
Are there any countries where euthanization using nitrogen gas is legal for the terminally ill? Wikipedia doesn’t seem to have all of the info on this. Thanks! — Euth
Assuming the facts reported are accurate, do you not see this as murder? — Hanover
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