Have you tried weed?

Edit: If she's a diamond in the rough, at least get decent life insurance first.

ha ha yes I have, is the suggestion that weed might give me a reason to want to stick around longer than 10 years?

Nah, you're just going through the hedonic treadmill or cycle as I like to call it. I mean, you only need to do a simple Google search to see how fortunate you truly are, and another to see those who manage to prosper in spite of even what you will see there. Eh. best hang in there. If not for the little lady eh?

And so more and more I find myself attracted to the idea of a 10 yearish exit plan. I don't have any kids, so no strings there. I do have a wife, but she's beautiful and almost 10 years younger than me so she will find another partner. I am also completely honest with her about how I feel in terms of aging. I am thinking why not maximize the next 10 years and do what I REALLY want to do, instead of merely surviving. I have some savings due to a property I sold, and so could rent and work part-time at a low stress job (something related to cars which I love) and just live life to the fullest. Live the kind of free life I would likely live if I won the lottery. I would live in a cool light filled loft, drive an exotic car and just wake up and do whatever the fuck I want that day. — dazed

The interesting thing would be, to do this, and find at the end of the ten years that you had attained a higher wisdom, which would enable you to carry on in even greater contentment living day-to-day, the means of being no longer being of any concern to you....

yah it's all relative, and that's exactly my point, I only see my level of happiness relative to my own prior level of happiness declining as my body breaks down. There was a guy in his early 60's in my gym who said that every month he got a little weaker...I'd rather not.

The little lady will be fine, if I really decide to go down this path, I won't let her stick around, I will set her free to find a new partner.

that's a definite possibility I suppose, but not sure about the higher wisdom part, I am pretty convinced this is all just a random mess

Even if that's true, having a choice in how to react to that seems like it might in itself be meaningful.

I don't have the means to extend this kind of lifestyle for longer than 10 years. — dazed

I wish you can do it. I am younger than you (23 years old) so I do not know what is the feeling of reach 50 but I guess is an important period of time where you clearly see how everything starts "fading away" slowly.
Nevertheless, despite I am young I also had that feeling of "I don't to continue here" because sometimes life itself is so heavy.
But do not get obsessed in this feeling. Life is a continue challenge. Also you have a partner with you that can support in the worst times. This is a gift because I never had a girlfriend/partner so I think meeting some in life is like a treasure.

Look, our lives soon or after will end. Your and mine. But somehow this is positive. We have to reach goals and make efforts to make the people who love us happy and confortable. Also do not being sad for feeling as "load". This also happens. I don't understand why the brain drives us to some painful situations. Probably to make us stronger?

Yes. Not completely the same, but I have an end of life plan which involves refusal of medical treatment and assisted suicide in the case of terminal illness. I don't think there's any dignity in clinging on to life by the fingernails at all costs. I do have kids, so my age variables are more than yours. For me it's not hedonic though. I'm lucky enough to pretty much live how I like anyway. I just don't think it's ethical for me to expect thousands of pounds to be spent on keeping me alive after a good innings when there's younger people who'd be better served by the money.

I can see what you mean though. I suppose in all honesty some of my decision is informed by the fact that I'll enjoy life less in those conditions that I would young and healthy, so there's less for me to weigh against the competing duty. I'd be more keen to have thousands spent on keeping me alive so I can hike Dartmoor with my family than having the same money spent so I can watch daytime TV and complain about my arthritis.

\
no such thing as choice in randomness

your reasons are much less selfish!

" that my consciousness springs forth from and is contained within a deteriorating mass of biological complexity."

Which is just an unproved assertion. Just as materiality is itself an unproved assertion.

Anyway, to the point. I agree with the Stoics, where suicide is preferable to absolute misery, torture and pain for which there is no escape. But only that. Only in the most grave of circumstances. Otherwise, live to die, die to live. :)

Cultivate what Yeats called your eagle mind. Be someone, or more informally, something. You think you're wrung out - hah! - you're barely started!

And what @Dharmi said.

I became less and less enamoured with the fact that my consciousness springs forth from and is contained within a deteriorating mass of biological complexity. — dazed

Now most of my social circle would likely me label me as nuts for thinking this way, but I suspect that within the group of philosophers in here, there are others who take a similar perspective. Am I wrong? — dazed

Man is a type of God, who observes the world around him and makes poetry, while being tied and bound by finitude for his biological temporal existence. His desire for creation, for experience, is the only thing that can lead him to total and absolute apotheosis.

He may live the way he want. Who in the end should feel fulfilled is him and only him.

I mean, you're older than me by quite a bit, so I can only speak out of *** so keep that in mind. Inherently, I don't see anything wrong with that. The main problem I see is those other people that care for you, all of them. If you don't have a say in what you want for your life, then nothing makes any sense at all.

But you seem to suggest that your SO will be fine. If you think that's the case, then do what you wish. Maybe I'm going through a dark phase - which I actually am - but, I worry more about getting throughout the next few weeks, never mind years. No financial problems or anything like that, just general disorientation. If you find something you like to do, that's the point of living, it seems to me.

As I just mentioned, 10 years can go by quickly, but it is a long time. Who knows what will happen tomorrow, never mind a single year?

As to your statement about our consciousness being a mass of deteriorating biological mass, sure, you can describe that way, if you wish. You can also think of it as nature knowing itself. Or you can say it's all a total mystery and our labels are placeholders for ignorance. Or we are just machines, destined to doom. It's a matter of preference in these questions, not matters of fact, I think, simply because we are so ignorant. But that might just be me.

[reply="Dharmi;506647"
I disagree, there comes a point where the balance sheet shows more suffering than happiness, and then it's time to leave

yeah I was raised a theist and my brain became a little hard wired with the God gives meaning and purpose to everything and now that's been taken away, and I face the reality that we are complex machines, it does seem all rather hollow in contrast

That's fine. You have the freedom to disagree.

"there comes a point where the balance sheet shows more suffering than happiness, and then it's time to leave"

But I'd still be careful with what you're saying. Does it have to be 51% suffering and 49% happiness to end it all?

If there's no hope in sight, I understand, but something that general has dangerous implications. I agree, if the suffering is unbearable, I think the person is justified and I sympathize and understand their position. However, if it's something that can be remedied in the foreseeable future, then it shouldn't be taken that way.

Or, you should still wait and see if it will get better. Maybe you don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, but wait a few weeks. Maybe a couple months.

See if things change first, before you end it all. And if you decide to in the end, you have my sympathies. I definitely understand the suffering of life isn't easy to come to terms with.

But I recommend heeding a quick thought:

All suffering in our lives is caused by our sense perceptions, and our sense perceptions are caused by the impermanent states of affairs we find ourselves in. If we just let go of these impermanent things, then our suffering goes along with them. The pain might very well not, but the suffering does. There is a mountain of difference between suffering and pain.

If you are interested I'd recommend reading chapter 2 of the Bhagavad Gita, and reading up on the teachings of the Buddha Siddharta Goatama. As well as the Stoics, Daoists and others who said very similar things.

Anyway, that's my final say on the issue.

Maybe I'm being too semantical here, but I don't think we are machines in any relevant sense of the word. You can say we are biological organisms that decay in accordance with the laws of nature and it would be strictly speaking true. On the other hand, listen to your favorite music, watch your favorite film or re-read your favorite novel. Is that "mere" biology? Sure, we aren't extra-biological, but speaking of favorite music and the like in terms of biology seems to really mis-describe the situation.

Having said that, it doesn't diminish your feeling of going to less with time.

@dazed.

As of late, I see my body starting to show its signs of deterioration more, my scoliosis has worsened, I seem to have developed hemmrhoids, I can;t run like I used to, I don't sleep longer than 6 hours straight much anymore, etc etc — dazed

I’m much older than you and have had three hemorrhoids for 15 years. They’ve never gotten any worse, just occasional discomfort and red spots on the toilet tissue; nothing to start planning the end of my life about.

I haven’t been able to run for 20 years, due to a work injury and the onset of arthritis in a knee...but my mind runs off all the time into vistas opened up by the books I have read and am reading, and the thoughts I have nourished by them concerning what’s going on in the world and my own life.

I never sleep longer than 6 hrs either, but, when I wake up I betake myself to some enjoyable, profitable activity, or just lie in the darkness contemplating my most recent dream, or my life in general, or some peculiar problem I’m dealing with.

In fine, I’d say your physical problems are unworthy of thoughts-of-death. I don’t know about scoliosis, for I don’t experience that physically. All I would say is that we all experience a scoliosis (warping) of the soul, and that that is what we should be most concerned about, whatever our physical state or age.

You don’t have to win the lottery to live an enjoyable life. If you know how to work on cars, you can get work anywhere. I’m a handyman, and it is hard to avoid all the appeals from friends and family to do this or that for them...

Live your dream, before you die. I’ve always wanted to travel the country. You dont have to have a bunch of money or a fancy car. It’s taken me thirty years of philosophical study to realize this: all you need are your soul and two legs to walk on to go whithersoever you will.

:fire:

And then one day you find
Ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run
You missed the starting gun

"What is terrible is easy to endure."
~Philodemus, Tetrapharmakos

"... there is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn ... One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
~Albert Camus, The Myth of Sisyphus, Ch. 4

:death: :flower:

I don't think humans want to live forever. But they don't want to die either. So the upshot is "just one more day", and if their wish would come true, life would stretch out to infinity. Not due to wanting to live, but due to wanting to not die.

I think your plan, @dazed would only work if you drank some time-release poison now, that activates in your system in ten years, or else if you hire a hit man or woman to off you in precisely ten years. If it comes to die in ten years, and you haven't secured a way to die, then at that point (with a healthy mind and in a relatively healthy body) that decision won't come to fruition.

This is a good idea, man. But I suggest you, and about 7000 000 000 humans ought to have done that ten years ago. Then and only then would we free up some very much needed elbow-room on this finite-surface planet.

I understand not wanting to live beyond the capacity to take one's life. I don't understand planning for what one will want in the future. One can strive for something in the present unfolding of becoming. That effort naturally leads to planning for the future. But the negation of the future requires no preparation.

In the analogy given of life as a party, if you are preoccupied about when you will leave it, you have already left it.

Now most of my social circle would likely me label me as nuts for thinking this way, but I suspect that within the group of philosophers in here, there are others who take a similar perspective. Am I wrong? — dazed

You're not wrong. I don't think we're crazy. We're just different. I sometimes talk to my wife about it, and she doesn't really like the subject. Maybe some people are just more disgusted by their own aging? I'm not saying it's easy to choose the moment (and I do worry about you choosing the moment ahead of time), but for a long time I've liked the idea of consciously walking into death. To me this is quite different than youthful angst. There's something beautiful about it, letting it all go, giving the space to the young. It only makes sense if one feels completed, or as completed as one is going to be.

I'm healthy and active at the moment, so I usually think of embracing death if faced with a nasty cancer that wouldn't be worth fighting. To cling to life at all costs just seems servile. Perhaps walking into death is also a fascinating challenge, the final frontier. As has been noted before, simply thinking that one could put an end to life makes life more bearable, more of a choice.

appreciate the perspectives.
we all have different tolerances for suffering and I fully recognize I have very little tolerance, so as things break down it affects me more than most.
I've always been a doer, my states of happiness have almost always been related to the physical and sensations
so sports, lifting weights, driving fast cars, eating great food, sex, being in nature (sex in nature being one of the best!)
these have been the primary drivers for me
and what's clear to me is that as I age, my ability to engage in those things and derive enjoyment from those things is clearly declining and will only continue to do so
one example:
I've always been a pretty good soccer player and still play open age but I've gone from one of the better players on my team to one of the worst and am almost a liability now
and yes sure I could move to the over 35 league, and I will, but it's simply not the same
that's just one example of the decline

so i feel like I should maximize what I have left for the next 10 years and not worry if I run out of money by then and can no longer survive...it will be a good run!

my brother!
my wife also hates when I talk this way
and I also love the sense of freedom that comes with conscious recognition of the choice to choose the timing of your exit

Ah, putting hopes in the "final solution".

I live in a traditionally Catholic country. Catholics officially abhor suicide. And yet traditionally, people typically had an oleander plant at their house, and esp. at the local church. Oleander is not native to these places, and it has to be moved indoors for the winter, it's too cold for it outside.
Mind you, oleander is highly toxic, fatally. At first glance, death by oleandrin poisoning looks like a heart attack.
But apparently, people here have had a tradition of keeping a means for suicide and murder ready. It's not a topic open for public discussion. Perhaps it has made their lives easier, having the means for the final solution so readily at hand, by making the choice absolutely clear, each and every day.

interesting, sounds like more people think this way than they reveal

I am thinking why not maximize the next 10 years and do what I REALLY want to do, instead of merely surviving. I have some savings due to a property I sold, and so could rent and work part-time at a low stress job (something related to cars which I love) and just live life to the fullest. Live the kind of free life I would likely live if I won the lottery. I would live in a cool light filled loft, drive an exotic car and just wake up and do whatever the fuck I want that day.

I don't have the means to extend this kind of lifestyle for longer than 10 years. Working part-time at a low paying job would mean the savings would likely run out in about 10 years and so it would be time to leave the party. But I am seem to be good with that, and why not do it before my body breaks down? — dazed

I’m a young man in my mid 20s and I actually already have a 30 year-ish Suicide plan for the exact same sorts of reasons that you expressed your desire to have one. So, I do think that what you are suggesting can be pretty rational under ideal circumstances. Having said that, I do think it’s pretty dangerous to leave yourself in financial destitute in 10 years because you think that your Suicide plan would actually work out. Statistically, suicide plans rarely actually work out in the end. There are many obstacles and logistical challenges to overcome that are quite difficult. They mostly relate to the method that you will want to use in your suicide. Here is a list of what I think are the best courses of action to consider and why even those courses of action are quite challenging:

1. Get legal euthanasia in Switzerland. There are some organizations In Switzerland like Dignitas who provide legal euthanasia to foreigners even if they don’t have a terminal illness. You just have to have some illnesses and bad health that can’t easily be cured. So, you would probably qualify. It does cost like $15000 though and I think they require a doctor from your country to sign off on you having conditions bad enough to warrant euthanasia so that could be pretty difficult to get. It’s probably the most painless and reliable method though.

2. Using a gun and hanging are probably the most obvious reliable options. Though, having a botched attempt will likely be catastrophic for you especially a botched gun suicide attempt. I am really scared of that as that just makes your life a living hell. Also, those attempts leave behind a nasty scenery to anyone that discovers your body. This might not be something that you are ok with. Also, I think it takes more willpower to use those methods because most of us are biologically programmed to be extremely hesitant to commit violence against ourselves. By contrast, methods that involve seemingly benign things like pills and gas that put you to sleep are easier to actually go through with.

3. Another really underrated method is using certain kinds of inorganic salts like Sodium Nitrite or Sodium Azide. These are legal to buy and own(though, you might get cops to come to your door if you try to buy them as many anti-suicide advocates will make fake ads for those salts to essentially identify people that might be looking to commit suicide.). These salts get mixed with water to produce a euthanasia cocktail. Also, there is a prescription drug that you are strongly recommended in having to avoid puking the salts out and having a botched attempt. The great thing about these salts is that they produce little suffering and you will just have a normal headache and dizziness. Also, if your attempt
fails and you get revived, the attempt will not cause any permanent damage and it will be a pretty pleasant revival. Nonetheless, you would have to find a discreet way to buy those salts which may be hard since you live with your wife. Also, many manufacturers of these salts have decided to stop selling them to individuals and now they only sell them to companies because these salts are mostly something that just gets used commercially. So, I’m not sure how easy it is to actually purchase that stuff.

4. The last option that seems kinda reasonable is using innate gases like Nitrogen to quickly put yourself to sleep. This method is very technical though and you really have to know what you’re doing and it can cause permanent brain damage so that’s not ideal. It’s very quick and painless though.

So, given the logistical challenges of actually committing suicide, I don’t ever want to assume that I can actually make it work in the end. Given this, I am actually investing a crap ton of money into my retirement plan because I don’t want to assume that I will definitely be dead by then. It would really suck to have to go through the pains of aging while being impoverished also. Being stuck in an abusive government nursing home for the impoverished is probably the closest thing to hell that could be found in an American life.