all attempts at an empirical deduction, in regard to pure à priori conceptions, are vain — Mww
It is not at all that properties cannot be described using words. It is that some properties require first-hand direct experience of sense data from the sense organs to be fully described. The actual smell of a rose cannot be completely put into words, thus is not an element of
the body of analytic knowledge. We can still know that some {roses} are {red} even though
we lack the sense data from the sense organs showing exactly what {red} is. — PL Olcott
Analytic expressions are expressions of language that can be verified as completely true entirely on the basis of their connection to the semantic meanings that make them true. Example: "Cats are animals". — PL Olcott
We can call this the analytic(olcott) / empirical(olcott) distinction meaning that any expression of language that can be verified as true on the basis of the axioms of the verbal model of the actual world is analytical(olcott). — PL Olcott
I think we can only know what experience, and refelection on the nature of experience tells us. We can also elaborate and extrapolate from formal rule-based systems like logic, mathematics, chess, Go etc. — Janus

Hard to call passages bracketed by quotation marks as plagiarized, innit? — Mww
In the service of survival though, right? — Wayfarer
So Darwin explains Kant? — Wayfarer
By presupposing it given some general observations, then constructing a theory that supports the presuppositions without contradicting the observations....................Even if all the predicates of transcendental philosophy are internally consistent with each other, and coherent as a whole in itself, there is nothing given from it that makes those predicates actually the case, at the expense of other relevant philosophies. — Mww
As you say it initially comes, not sui generis, but from a careful reflection on the nature of experience (and of course also becomes culturally established), so in that sense it is dependent on experience. It is independent of experience in that once established it is clear that all possible experience must conform to the a priori categories — Janus
I am separating analytic truthmakers from synthetic .........Some of these expressions such as "cats are animals" are stipulated to be true (AKA axioms). Other expressions are proven to be true on the basis of deductions from these axioms..............Any expression of language that can only be proven true with sense data from the sense organs: "A cat is in my living room right now" are excluded. — PL Olcott
It seems to be no mystery to me...........Hume was correct that we don't see the actual operations of causation, we don't see the forces at work, but when our bodies are involved, we can certainly feel them........................but all it does take is reflection upon our felt experience to naturally form a notion of causation. — Janus
Hume shows that experience does not tell us much. Of two events, A and B, we say that A causes B when the two always occur together, that is, are constantly conjoined. Whenever we find A, we also find B, and we have a certainty that this conjunction will continue to happen. Once we realize that “A must bring about B” is tantamount merely to “Due to their constant conjunction, we are psychologically certain that B will follow A”, then we are left with a very weak notion of necessity.
Intro to CPR, page 6 - He entitles the question of how synthetic a priori judgments are possible the "general problem of pure reason" (B 1 9), and proposes an entirely new science in order to answer it (A IO-16/B 24-30).
Intro to CPR - page 6 - Kant agrees with Locke that we have no innate knowledge, that is, no knowledge of any particular propositions implanted in us by God or nature prior to the commencement of our individual experience.
CPR 168 - If someone still wanted to propose a middle way between the only two, already named ways, namely, that the categories were neither self-thought a priori first principles of our cognition nor drawn from experience, but were rather subjective predispositions for thinking, implanted in us along with our existence by our author in such a way that their use would agree exactly with the laws of nature along which experience runs (a kind of prefonnation-system of pure reason), then (besides the fact that on such a hypothesis no end can be seen to how far one might drive the presupposition of predetermined predispositions for future judgments) this would be decisive against the supposed middle way: that in such a case the categories would lack the necessity that is essential to their concept.
Intro to CPR - page 2 - Yet while he attempted to criticize and limit the scope of traditional metaphysics, Kant also sought to defend against empiricists its underlying claim of the possibility of universal and necessary knowledge - what Kant called a priori knowledge, knowledge originating independently of experience, because no knowledge derived from any particular experience, or a posteriori knowledge, could justify a claim to universal and necessary validity.
In this respect Kant agrees with Locke that there are no innate principles or ideas to be ‘found’ in us. Both hold that all our ideas have their origin in experience. But Locke thinks that we build these ideas by abstracting from experience and recombining abstracted elements. Kant holds that such representations or ideas cannot be abstracted from experience; they must be the product of careful reflection on the nature of experience.
Kant viewed moral knowledge as fundamentally a priori in the sense that moral knowledge must be the result of careful reasoning (first transcendental, then deductive); one could discover through reason the fundamental moral principle, and then deduce from that principle more specific moral duties. Moore, on the other hand, explicitly rules out reasoning to fundamental moral principles; since these principles are self-evident, Moore denies that there are, properly speaking, any reasons for them. Thus, we find in Moore a distinctively intuitionist account of a priori knowledge, as opposed to Kant’s rationalist account. Moore’s account is intuitionistic because the reason why we believe, and ought to believe, fundamental moral principles is that they are self-evident propositions that appear true to us.
Prolegomena 32 - And we indeed, rightly considering objects of sense as mere appearances, confess thereby that they are based upon a thing in itself, though we know not this thing as it is in itself, but only know its appearances, viz., the way in which our senses are affected by this unknown something.
Kant holds that such representations or ideas cannot be abstracted from experience; they must be the product of careful reflection on the nature of experience.
That does not constitute an argument. — Wayfarer
And what would provide the basis for such ‘careful reflection’ in the absence of an innate grasp of the issue at hand? — Wayfarer
According to Kant, certain concepts, like causation, are not derived from experience but are rather innate to the human mind (remember, Hume and the other empiricists denied innate capacities) — Wayfarer
But the Lockean Empiricist approach carried the day, and innateness was written off as a backward and discredited view. Nineteenth century Kantianism, although potentially friendlier to innateness, left it on the sidelines as philosophically irrelevant.
He is certainly not an Empiricist; he sees his philosophy as a response to the challenge of Humean Empiricism. Nevertheless, he is critical of Rationalist versions of the Innateness doctrine at every turn.
Kant’s main complaint against Rationalist Nativism was that it accepted that the innate had to correspond to an independent reality, but it could not explain how we could establish such a correspondence or use it to account for the full range of our knowledge. In this, it failed to meet Hume’s challenge. Kant finds the position guilty of a number of related fatal errors.
1) Warrant. How can we establish that innate principles are true of the world? In the Prolegomena he criticizes the Innateness doctrine of his contemporary Crusius because even if a benevolent non-deceiving God was the source of the innate principles, we have no way to reliably determine which candidate principles are innate and which may pass as such (for some).
2) Psychologism. At times Kant seems to suggest that the psychologism of Rationalist Nativism is itself a problem and makes it impossible to explain how we can get knowledge of objective necessary connections (as opposed to subjective necessities).
3) Modal concepts. Callanan 2013 reads Kant as offering a Hume-style argument that Rationalist Nativism cannot explain how we could come to have a concept of objective necessity, if all we had were innate psychological principles.
In this respect Kant agrees with Locke that there are no innate principles or ideas to be ‘found’ in us. Both hold that all our ideas have their origin in experience. But Locke thinks that we build these ideas by abstracting from experience and recombining abstracted elements. Kant holds that such representations or ideas cannot be abstracted from experience; they must be the product of careful reflection on the nature of experience.
He says what appears in your sensibility can be dealt by reason, but what doesn't appear in your sensibility, but what you can think of, are Thing-in-itself. — Corvus
If you really have to brand him what he was, he would more likely had been a transcendental realist. — Corvus
Now that is Berkeley's immaterial idealism, because you deny the existence in the world, but think they all exist in your mind. — Corvus
Reason can only deal with the objects appearing in our sensibility via experience, and that is the limit of pure reason. — Corvus
If Thing-in-itself exists in the empirical world, and thought to appear in phenomenon, then it would be contradiction. — Corvus
It doesn't make sense to me, when you say, the postbox exist in the empirical world, but the red patch exists in your mind. — Corvus
in the sense of transcendental idealism, is it not the case that the unity of perceptions of a given object actually represent a 'whole' object rather than merely a set of properties — AmadeusD
'Horseness' doesn't consist in any properties of the horse, but the totality of those properties, under certain concepts. Take away the 'brownness' and it's still a horse. Take away 'horse-hairy-ness' and it's still a horse. Take away the mane, the hoofs etc.. In parts, and Horseness remains. — AmadeusD
Solid ground for infallible knowledge is about the objects in the empirical world. Noumena is for the A priori perceptions which have no objects in the world of appearance. Noumena has nothing to do with the solid material existence in the empirical world. — Corvus
It gets all strange, if you place the ordinary objects like cups or trees into Noumena, and say they are Thing-in-itself, which are unknowable and cannot be talked about. — Corvus
1. You are talking about only the things in your mind. It will not give you any further knowledge on the external world itself. You say you are seeing the red postbox, but it is in your mind, and it doesn't exist in the world. So it is not an empirical knowledge, but it is your belief in your mind, which you admit that it doesn't exist in the world. — Corvus
2. There is also high possibility of illusion and hallucination on the perception and also talking about them, which are not the reality in the empirical world. — Corvus
3. These are not what Kant thinks how perception works. He was seeking to establish a solid ground for infallible knowledge. He would be seriously worried to see someone looking at things not existing in the world, and keeps talking about them as if they do exist in the world, and at the same time saying they don't exist in the world — Corvus
It sounds gross self-contradictory to say "matter existing in the world is noumena", and then keeps going on "noumena cannot be cognized, it cannot therefore be talked about"......................How can "matter" be talked about as "unknown causes"? Do you mean they are the same? How so? — Corvus
So how were you able to talk about "the matter of the Eiffel Tower", if you couldn't know it? Is it possible to know what "the matter" means? — Corvus
The Eiffel Tower is indeed an idea, which has been realized (made real) in iron. Without the idea, no such thing could have been wrought. The resulting artefact is an ideal exemplar of the synthesis of matter and form. — Wayfarer
Are things more than their parts? — AmadeusD
The question he has is somewhat similar to mine.................his question is Kant's use of the word 'experience' with regard to delineating between 'understanding' and 'intuition'. He is asking why Kant thought he could get away with the premise that het two are necessarily distinct and why, with regard to Humean/Leibnizian alternatives, he thought it could not be argued against. — AmadeusD
You couldn't possibly have the concept without the phenomena — AmadeusD
I am not sure if your justification using innate-ism were coherent for your premises or conclusions. — Corvus
whatever judgements are made about the world, the mind provides the framework within which such judgements are meaningful. So though we know that prior to the evolution of life there must have been a Universe with no intelligent beings in it, or that there are empty rooms with no inhabitants, or objects unseen by any eye- the existence of all such supposedly unseen realities still relies on an implicit perspective. What their existence might be outside of any perspective is meaningless and unintelligible, as a matter of both fact and principle — Wayfarer
The origin of A priori ideas in biological psychological sense would be in the interest of the evolutionary science rather than Philosophy. — Corvus
'Objective and independent' stands in contradiction to 'within language'. — Wayfarer
We cannot consider a mind-independent world, because to consider anything is to make it the subject of thought. You refer to 'the mind dependent' and 'mind independent' as if these are two separate realities, but that is comparison that can't be made. — Wayfarer
I'll bow out now unless I have something to add specific to the text. — Wayfarer
Kant was saying that pure intuitions and concepts are the the properties of our minds which work with pure reason in CPR. He is not interested in where they came from — Corvus
For example 2+2=4 is A priori knowledge, which is universally and necessarily true in the whole universe.----------------That sounds like extreme idealism. We are talking about the universally and necessarily true knowledge, and it exists. Again it is nothing to do with the physical universe. Knowledge exists in our understanding. Universally doesn't mean the physical universe. It means "under all conditions". — Corvus
You just committed a self-contradiction here. You shouldn't even be able to write about it, if above were true. — Corvus
But I know they exist, because I read about them. Just because I know something doesn't mean that I must believe in it too.-----------------I have demonstrated how the official definitions could be false, but you have gone back to the false official definition ignoring the real life demonstration and evidence. — Corvus
When you say "Innatism", it denotes psychological or biological nature rather than epistemic, conceptual nature, and it has nothing to do what Kant was meaning for A priori. — Corvus
For example 2+2=4 is A priori knowledge, which is universally and necessarily true in the whole universe. — Corvus
Justified true belief has stronger ground than a knowledge via heard through the grapevine. I really don't believe the electrons, atoms and Andromeda galaxies exist, because I have never seen them, or been there. But I know they exist, because I read about them. — Corvus
But that is an oxymoron — Wayfarer
Werner Heisenberg, who aside from being one of the architects of quantum theory, also wrote on its philosophical implications, said that electrons 'do not exist in the same way that flowers or stones do' — Wayfarer
I too am an empirical realist - there really are apples - but I also recognise the sense in which they exist for a subject. Another kind of being might not see them at all, or might see them in a completely different way. It doesn't mean that they don't exist, but that they don't have inherent existence — Wayfarer
I don't think your depiction of a priori as subjective is correct — Wayfarer
The problem with that view is that the manner in which electrons can be said to exist is not at all straightforward.........................We have to get our head around the role of the mind-brain in constructing/creating what we perceive as reality. — Wayfarer
If A priori is just innate to you, and all different from person to person, then what is the point of A priori? Would it not better just as well call it as Relative concept rather than A priori? There must be some universality and necessity in truth on A priori, and that was what Kant was after in CPR.........................I can't know what your perception of WL700nm would be like, and that was the point. — Corvus
I know the Andromeda Galaxy exists, but I don't believe it exists. — Corvus
Yes, but my question was how do you know it is real or illusion? — Corvus
A priori means that it is universally true under all circumstances. — Corvus
How / Why do you justify your belief in something that you cannot prove it exists? — Corvus
what is the relation between the colour you perceive (red), and the WL700nm? — Corvus
How does he know for certain what he is conscious of is not an illusion? — Corvus
Does this mean, if something was conscious of itself, then it could be inside him? — Corvus
Any popular media based information will be flatly rejected as propaganda in all philosophical discussions unless proved and verified otherwise — Corvus
When you say, we impose space and temporal forms on the sensory experiences, it does imply we can also choose not to impose as well. — Corvus
Wasn't Kant refuting the rationalists rather than idealism? If it were idealists, who were they? — Corvus
What is the proof of the legitimacy of the concept that things exist independently of the mind? — Corvus
Any relevant quotes for this argument from CPR? — Corvus
I don't subscribe to the most of Wiki info. — Corvus
From the traditional logic perspective, they insist that contents is not dealt by logic. Fair enough on that. But from all the other logic, content itself is important part of logic. If you read Bolzano's Theory of Science, you would agree. — Corvus
They sounded to have read somewhere about the traditional logic, and it is the only form of logic in existence, and have been opposing on the view that Logic can require contents for its operation. :roll: — Corvus
What pitfalls must i avoid in reading this section? — AmadeusD
Once again….red is not a thing. Wavelength is a thing, but is not an sensation. — Mww
