I listened to that interview right up to where the speaker said 'it was completely peaceful'. She says, as a witness, no violence, kumbaya. — Wayfarer

I would suggest listening further. Do you think she was lying? Why do you think she said it was peaceful?

Do you think she was lying? — Leontiskos

Yes. One account, completely contrary to all the voluminously reported facts.

Leaving aside the riot, are you a fellow traveler of the anti-vaccine crowd Gold hung out with back in the day? — Paine

This sort of ad hominem is something I don't often see from you, but I suppose we're in a political thread.

Yes. — Wayfarer

Well that must be it. She had an experience of violent rioting but said she had a peaceful experience because she's just a big old liar. That was easy. Convenient, too.

But surely you can't be saying that the January 6th riot and insurrection was a fabrication? That this subject's testimony is the real fact of the matter, and all of that reporting and those eyewitness accounts are fabricated? Is that what you're saying?

Doing a bit more digging on this Simone Gold: she was arrested for participating.

A key conservative doctors’ group pushing misinformation about Covid-19 vaccines faces growing fire from medical experts about its woeful scientific grounding, while its leader, Dr Simone Gold, was charged early this week for taking part in the 6 January attack on the Capitol.

The development comes as the US faces warnings its pandemic death toll could hit 500,000 next month, in part because conspiracy theories and baseless skepticism – especially from rightwing groups – have hampered efforts to tackle it.

Gold, who founded America’s Frontline Doctors last spring with help from the Tea Party Patriots organization, was arrested on Monday in Beverly Hills, where she lives, and faces charges of entering a restricted building, violent entry and disorderly conduct. Prior to her arrest, a headshot of Gold holding a bullhorn that she used to give a talk inside the Capitol appeared on an FBI flyer headlined “Seeking Information” about suspects in the Capitol attack. The group’s communications director, John Strand, who writes for the conservative Epoch Times and was with Gold in the Capitol, was also arrested in Beverly Hills and faces similar charges.

A 55-year-old emergency room physician, Gold did not respond to calls and text messages asking about her role in the attack and why she baselessly calls a Covid-19 vaccine an “experimental biological agent”.

"Simone Gold is a toxic purveyor of misinformation, now actively contributing to rightwing extremist rhetoric" said Dr Irwin Redlener of Columbia University.

Gold first acknowledged her presence at the Capitol and voiced “regret” to the Washington Post, after a video surfaced of her walking inside the Capitol along with Strand. Gold told the Post she thought entering the Capitol was legal, and she didn’t witness violence, even though dozens of Capitol police were hurt and five people died.

Last May, Gold’s group gained fast attention as several allied rightwing organizations, including Tea Party Patriots and the FreedomWorks Foundation, began a well-funded publicity drive attacking state lockdowns and downplaying the risks of the pandemic. — Wilful ignorance': doctor who joined Capitol attack condemned for Covid falsehoods

she's just a big old liar — Leontiskos

A 'notorious liar' would be more accurate. You want to be careful who you're lending your credibility to, Leontiskos, if you wish to retain your own.

Doing a bit more digging on this Simone Gold: she was arrested for participating. — Wayfarer

So you didn't finish watching the video. It seems like watching it might have threatened your preconceived notions, so you decided not to.

I was curious, not trying to make it about Gold's testimony which can be questioned by a review of the facts.

So you didn't finish watching the video. — Leontiskos

Gold is a notorious liar and propagandist. She is not worth listening to.

Answer the question:

But surely you can't be saying that the January 6th riot and insurrection was a fabrication? That this subject's testimony is the real fact of the matter, and all of that reporting and those eyewitness accounts are fabricated? Is that what you're saying? — Wayfarer

Is that what you believe?

- Did you watch the video I posted? I don't know how to discuss the testimony found in a video with folks who haven't watched the video. I don't find anywhere in that video where Gold claims that no violence or rioting occurred on January 6. I think that was a convenient interpretation for Wayfarer's preconceptions. It allowed him to dismiss the video without watching it, and now he wants to discuss a video he didn't watch.

I started watching it, up until the time she said January 6th was peaceful, kumbaya. Direct quote. Don't you think that might, just might, be a cause for suspicion that one is listening to bullshit, and respond accordingly?

And, answer the question!

And, answer the question! — Wayfarer

Watch the video if you want to have a discussion of the video. I think this is a good opportunity for you to do some critical thinking rather than just jumping to the conclusion that folks are outright lying.

I think this is a good opportunity for you to do some critical thinking rather than just jumping to the conclusion that folks are outright lying. — Leontiskos

SO, you think I should listen to a notorious liar and propagandist, and that decisions made on the basis of the media coverage and the January 6th Commission are 'preconcieved notions'?

- I think you have to listen to someone before you call them a liar, just as you have to read philosophy before you draw conclusions about it.

I don't have to listen to liars, and I'm done talking to you about it.

- You have to listen to someone and correctly interpret them if you are to call them a liar with any degree of seriousness. Your inability to fairly interpret Gold's statements is quite remarkable. Probably there is no desire for a fair interpretation in the first place.

Your inability to fairly interpret Gold's statements is quite remarkable. — Leontiskos

But she's obviously lying. I hadn't heard of her, so I googled her and found the Guardian article:

"Simone Gold is a toxic purveyor of misinformation, now actively contributing to rightwing extremist rhetoric" said Dr Irwin Redlener of Columbia University. — Wilful ignorance': doctor who joined Capitol attack condemned for Covid falsehoods

She's a notorious liar, propagandist and vaccine skeptic. Why should I waste time listening to her? 'Oh, some guy on the internet says she's smart' :roll:

I googled her and found the Guardian article — Wayfarer

I offered you a direct interview of eyewitness testimony so you would have an opportunity to cease your post hoc rationalization with your favorite ideological sources. I guess you prefer that ideology to such an extent that you can't even listen to eyewitness testimony. Such is prejudice in the extreme.

I guess you prefer that ideology to such an extent that you can't even listen to eyewitness testimony. — Leontiskos

Your self description. One radical anti-vaxxers word. You're trolling, over and out.

- I would suggest you ask yourself the question, "Is she lying? Or is my interpretation missing something? Is there a more plausible conclusion to draw?"

I watched it to the end. The claims amount to something like "I was shoplifting for a couple of hours in the store but saw nobody getting hurt."

I don't find anywhere in that video where Gold claims that no violence or rioting occurred on January 6. — Leontiskos

Then what is the value of her testimony measured against all the violence that was filmed and reported upon by others?

I watched it to the end. — Paine

Okay, well thanks for that.

The claims amount to something like "I was shoplifting for a couple of hours in the store but saw nobody getting hurt." — Paine

Not sure what you're talking about. Are you claiming that her prepared speech was inciting?

Then what is the value of her testimony measured against all the violence that was filmed and reported upon by others? — Paine

Your video was completely non sequitur and this comment is a non-starter. Gold is not claiming that no violence occurred on January 6. Hochschild obviously does not claim that either. They are contextualizing a common narrative. Two things can be true at the same time, after all.

If she is not claiming that about violence, what is the point of what she does observe? How does it change your understanding of what happened?

It supports the thesis of Hochschild's article that my post referenced:

On the east side, there was no rioting, but plenty of people gathered on the two sets of steps, some conversing with police. Police eventually let them in. Some of those people, a combination of tourists and peaceful protestors, were later arrested, charged, and jailed for trespassing. All to send a message: How dare they threaten Democracy? — Joshua Hochschild, Begging your Pardon

(I.e. there was a lot of political maneuvering involved in the portrayals, events, and sentencing of January 6.)

Did you watch this video?

- I refuse, and whoever created it is a liar, for vancho cakes are unmakeable.

I don't think your characterization is accurate tho.

- Would you like to say that to me again in the parking lot?

Those supposed peaceful visitors are not why they got access to the building.