• TogetherTurtle
    353
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uRK8Delzvk

    So, what do we all think?

    Obviously there could be some moral concerns, but I'll leave discussing those up to you guys. The only thing that initially threw up red flags for me was the compatability with already existing keyboards, phones, and other devices. Some of you may already know this but I'll explain for those who don't.

    For most computers, input from keyboards and other peripherials is always trusted. This is why you can brick your own computer by deleting system 32 fairly easily, but a hacker sending malicious files has a harder time doing that. However, since keyboards are inherently trusted, someone can perform automatic functions (with malicious intent or not) by plugging in a USB flash drive that appears to the computer to be a keyboard.

    Assuming that simmilar tech is used, it can be assumed that something similar can be done to a neural link. Of course, in the begining stages this tech is planned to be used for medical purposes, but if the patient happens to be someone important, things could go wrong.

    Other than that, I'd like to hear what you guys think about this.
  • Shawn
    10.8k
    Other than that, I'd like to hear what you guys think about this.TogetherTurtle

    I was going to post about this here; but, wasn't sure if the audience was the right fit.

    First, one has to applaud Elon Musk for making this possible. It takes a genius to be able to manage The Boring Company, Tesla, SpaceX, and now Neuralink, along with SolarCity lumped into Tesla as of recent. There's also his OpenAI which he no longer manages (There's gotta be some limit to this guy).

    I watched the entire presentation online and was stunned at the professionalism and results that they managed to achieve (an order of magnitude better over existing cutting edge technology).

    Now, what nobody realizes about Neuralink is that it stands to make the ENTIRE chemical-based psychiatry movement as redundant. Musk specifically outlined the potential for Neuralink to treat psychiatric conditions like schizophrenia, autism, depression, and other maladies of the mind through these neural implants that would stochastically be able to measure aberrant brain activity and modify it by either inhibiting specific areas of the brain or stimulating underactive areas of the brain.

    After, the grand potential to treat these conditions, Musk then is setting his eyes on enhancing existing brain activity, which is uncharted territory in the medical field.

    All in all, there are some ethical issues to this latter task, that I think will be looked over, eventually in my opinion.

    It's hard to fathom just what kind of discoveries will be attained from being able to record neural activity with such a high resolution, along with how one might be able to normalize the aberrant activity of the mind for each individual; but, nevertheless, someone is making an effort to address these issues.

    For the matter, I do plan to become one of a number of early adopters of this technology given my own issues with dealing with psychosis, depression, and anxiety. I might perhaps wait until v.3.0 or such to avoid any kinks or some such, as I am highly involved in the nootropic and transhumanist movement.

    That's about all I can think about at the moment.

    Oh yeah, did I mention that this opens up an entirely new field into human communication and the language of thought between two people with said implants?? Pretty insane stuff going on here.
  • Marchesk
    3.6k
    thats if the technology delivers on those goals someday. I take it’s too early to know how effective Neuralink will be in treating psychiatric conditions or transmitting thoughts to other minds.
  • Shawn
    10.8k
    I take it’s too early to know how effective Neuralink will be in treating psychiatric conditions or transmitting thoughts to other minds.Marchesk

    At this point, it's an engineering problem as far as I know. Something which Musk is great at optimizing or delivering on.
  • Marchesk
    3.6k
    But not also medical problem?
  • Shawn
    10.8k


    In what way?
  • Marchesk
    3.6k
    the biological part.
  • Shawn
    10.8k


    Well, that's kind of really a general statement, where does one begin with such a statement?
  • TogetherTurtle
    353
    First, one has to applaud Elon Musk for making this possible. It takes a genius to be able to manage The Boring Company, Tesla, SpaceX, and now Neuralink, along with SolarCity lumped into Tesla as of recent. There's also his OpenAI which he no longer manages (There's gotta be some limit to this guy).Wallows

    While I'm admittedly impressed by all of the things he's pulling off, I don't know the guy. Not saying you're doing this here, but people do like to idolize him. Doing great things like this should be considered normal instead of god-like.

    Now, what nobody realizes about Neuralink is that it stands to make the ENTIRE chemical-based psychiatry movement as redundant.Wallows

    To be fair, I don't think chemical-based psychiatry was that effective in the first place. From outrageous prices for medication to the unpredictable results, I think it's probably best we have an alternative.

    After, the grand potential to treat these conditions, Musk then is setting his eyes on enhancing existing brain activity, which is uncharted territory in the medical field.Wallows

    I think humanity as a whole has begun a great shift away from a "category" based view of the world in which things fit into nice little compartments into an "interdependence" view in which all things are connected and borders are difficult to distinguish if not impossible. A brain might be studied by a biologist and a computer by a computer scientist, but who studies a neural link? In the end it's all just matter and energy interacting, and our boundaries break down.

    All in all, there are some ethical issues to this latter task, that I think will be looked over, eventually in my opinion.Wallows

    I'm kind of afraid to venture into the ethical issues because in a world where people can be more efficient, things change dramatically. It's hard to decide what is wrong or right for a world you can't possibly imagine right now.

    For the matter, I do plan to become one of a number of early adopters of this technology given my own issues with dealing with psychosis, depression, and anxiety. I might perhaps wait until v.3.0 or such to avoid any kinks or some such, as I am highly involved in the nootropic and transhumanist movement.Wallows

    If I were to align with any ideology exclusively it would probably be transhumanism. It just makes sense that if given the tools to enhance ourselves that we should. I had to look up what nootropic meant, and from the two sentences I read on it I'm not really convinced. It sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure the stuff works, that's all I mean.

    As for adopting, I think it would be impossible for me not to since I'm planning to major in CS. It'll probably be hard to get a job working with computers if you aren't as fast as everyone else.

    Oh yeah, did I mention that this opens up an entirely new field into human communication and the language of thought between two people with said implants?? Pretty insane stuff going on here.Wallows

    This goes more into what I was saying regarding to ethics. If this catches on and becomes affordable enough for average people, a lot of things are going to be antiquated fairly quickly. This also brings up the idea that a non-enhanced underclass may emerge. I think this can be considered a bad thing, because all ethical issues aside, an underclass is always more trouble than it's worth.
  • Marchesk
    3.6k
    Well, that's kind of really a general statement, where does one begin with such a statement?Wallows

    For starters, treating psychiatric conditions isn't an engineering problem.
  • god must be atheist
    2.1k
    Say "hello" to the Brave New World full of Avatars. Say good-bye to the necessity of physical experience.

    Just plug me into making out with [substitute here your favourite celebrity, from Rachel Welch to Mother Theresa, form Genghis Khan to R2D2, from Vladimir Ilyich Lenin to Golda Meir] and Bob is your uncle.

    With commercial breaks every fifteen minutes, of course.
  • Shawn
    10.8k
    While I'm admittedly impressed by all of the things he's pulling off, I don't know the guy. Not saying you're doing this here, but people do like to idolize him. Doing great things like this should be considered normal instead of god-like.TogetherTurtle

    Haha, yeah. I guess I do like the guy. I mean, if you value a better future, then he's doing his best to ensure one for the human species.

    To be fair, I don't think chemical-based psychiatry was that effective in the first place. From outrageous prices for medication to the unpredictable results, I think it's probably best we have an alternative.TogetherTurtle

    Well, depends on the condition. For some psychiatry can't even address, such as autism. Others like schizophrenia are difficult to treat residual symptoms, such as negative one's.

    If I were to align with any ideology exclusively it would probably be transhumanism. It just makes sense that if given the tools to enhance ourselves that we should. I had to look up what nootropic meant, and from the two sentences I read on it I'm not really convinced. It sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure the stuff works, that's all I mean.TogetherTurtle

    Yeah, it's definitely transhumanism... What do you think more about transhumanism?
  • Shawn
    10.8k
    For starters, treating psychiatric conditions isn't an engineering problem.Marchesk

    Yes, it's a medical one. So, what about it?
  • Marchesk
    3.6k
    Full circle, eh?
  • Shawn
    10.8k


    Haha, yeah...
  • Marchesk
    3.6k
    Arguing in circles makes one dizzy.
  • TogetherTurtle
    353
    Haha, yeah. I guess I do like the guy. I mean, if you value a better future, then he's doing his best to ensure one for the human species.Wallows

    I think I've always had trust issues though. There's a scandal about everyone just waiting to happen.

    Well, depends on the condition. For some psychiatry can't even address, such as autism. Others like schizophrenia are difficult to treat residual symptoms, such as negative one's.Wallows

    Medication for mental stuff has always seemed so hit or miss though, and most of the time they just cover up symptoms. I think it's best to always eliminate a problem at the source.

    Yeah, it's definitely transhumanism... What do you think more about transhumanism?Wallows

    If we want to become truly more than human, I think we first need to become a post-scarcity civilization, meaning essentially that we have so much of everything that everyone can have as much as they want. I think that if we want to accomplish that we have to both limit the size of our population and develop the necessary infrastructure to collect the vast amount of resources in our solar system.

    The reasoning behind all this is to prevent the creation of an underclass as I mentioned before. Speaking with historical hindsight, I think most people can recognize that while having a caste that does the dirty work is nice for those on top for a while, that doesn't last. People will only take perceived injustice for so long, and not being a superhuman when your neighbors or friends are can definitely be seen as injustice, whether we're only distributing such luxuries as they're deserved or not.

    I think the main problem with transhumanism is this. If we're going to become more than we are now, we have to take everyone (who wants to come) with us or risk disaster via civil unrest and war. I just don't think that will ever be feasible if the price to ascend is higher than the potential returns for investors, politicians, and billionaire tunnel boring businessmen.
  • Shawn
    10.8k
    I wanted to post a thread about Neuralink.

    I am betting very hard on this technology to treat my psychiatric ailments. It is one of the very few things that gives me hope about the future.

    I am honestly very tired of my schizophrenia, ADD, and profound depression, and this sounds like a Godsend just for me.

    Anyone else waiting for this to become a standard procedure for those with disabilities?
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