Loading [MathJax]/extensions/Safe.js
  • Paine
    2.6k

    Since the IGs are a crucial element of Congressional oversight, it will be interesting to see if the GOP will let this go forward. At the very least, having to seat this many new officers is not how the legislators were imagining their Spring.
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    It's theoretically illegal, but since Presidents are above the law, that may not matter.
  • Paine
    2.6k

    As the matter involves the balance of power between the executive and the legislative branches, even the most hard core trumpsters may not kiss the ring for this.
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    IMO, you underestimate the fealty of Trump's supporters. For example: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/22/trump-pardons-republicans
  • Paine
    2.6k

    I was not predicting who came out on top. Just pointing to a paradox to accepting trump's conditions for those interested in doing a particular job.
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    Ah! I see your point.
  • 180 Proof
    15.6k
    United States of Kakistan
    25January25

    Kristi Noem confirmed as Sec'y of DHS. — FOTUS 47's Cabinet
    :fear:
  • Tzeentch
    3.9k
    Trump has apparently barred any development of a US-based CBDC. I couldn't find much information on this particular decree. It seems most of the Media™ hasn't reported on it yet.

    Trump Kicks Crypto Policy into Gear and Hammers Nail in US CBDC Coffin

    That many nails may follow, and that this abomination of surveillance, financial repression and unrestrained currency devaluation may be thrown in the ocean never to resurface.
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    I can grasp some reasons why conservatives oppose DEI and affirmative action: they infer that it entails discrimination against their kind (white, heterosexual, etc). Irrespective of whether they are correct (which I'm skeptical of), I'd like to understand why this is deemed appropriate:

    US Air Force removes lessons on black WWII pilots from training

    Donald Trump's move to block diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) initiatives has led to the US Air Force removing material on the role of black and female pilots during World War Two from its training programmes.

    A military official said "immediate steps" were taken to remove material to "ensure compliance" with the US president's order, the BBC's US news partner CBS reported.

    Trainee troops were previously shown footage of pioneering servicemen and women as part of DEI courses during basic military training.

    Trump signed an executive order banning such programmes in the federal government soon after returning to office, fulfilling a pledge he repeatedly made during the campaign.
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    Mississippi bill would pay bounty hunters to catch undocumented immigrants

    President Trump’s administration has made it clear that deporting illegal immigrants is a priority, and we are proud to do our part here in Mississippi to help support his agenda and protect our citizens.”

    Keen and Barton suggested offering a $1,000 reward to registered bounty hunters for each successful deportation they help facilitate, which would be funded by the general assembly and administered by the state treasurer, according to a press release from his office.


    If this passes, non-Whites should steer clear of Mississipi.
  • BitconnectCarlos
    2.3k


    In the military one needs to form a new identity, one based on group unity and emphasizing the achievements of one racial group works against that goal. As a veteran, the military should be color-blind and work towards unity, not fragmentation, in group identity.
  • ssu
    8.8k
    Model Trumpian choice. Wanted as governor of South Dakota to deploy the local National Guard to the southern border with the financing of a billionaire. Didn't go through, but actions like holding the Trump line that the 2016 elections were rigged, ensured that she would get a position. And as a grandmother she's not yet ugly, which is important for Trump.

    gov-photo2-hires_resized.jpg
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    Prejudice has not disappeared from our society, and was institutionalized in the military in the past. Acknowledging the racial and ethnic discrimination that occurred in the past demonstrates the current inclusiveness and distinguishes it from the prejudices that persist outside the military. This is not antithetical to unity.
  • BitconnectCarlos
    2.3k


    IMHO racism is best fought by emphasizing commonality and common goals rather than repeatedly emphasizing difference and/or prior victimhood within groups. The approach should be more future-oriented.
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    Others disagree. Here's a poll: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/05/17/diversity-equity-and-inclusion-in-the-workplace/

    To be clear, this isn't focused on the military, but the military is still a workplace.

    "More than half of workers (54%) say their company or organization pays about the right amount of attention to increasing DEI. Smaller shares say their company or organization pays too much (14%) or too little attention (15%), and 17% say they’re not sure. Black workers are more likely than those in other racial and ethnic groups to say their employer pays too little attention to increasing DEI. They’re also among the most likely to say focusing on DEI at work is a good thing (78% of Black workers say this), while White workers are the least likely to express this view (47%)."

    Suppose we were to put it to a vote. The majority of voters are white- the group least likely to be victims of prejudice. Would it really make sense to eliminate it based on a majority vote? I don't think so.
  • 180 Proof
    15.6k
    IMHO racism is best fought by emphasizing commonality and common goals rather than repeatedly emphasizing difference and/or prior victimhood within groups. The approach should be more future-oriented.BitconnectCarlos
    This sort of bourgeois-feel good ahistoricism is always futile. In order to "emphasize commonality and common goals","future-oriented" whites should stop disproportionately benefiting political economically asap from the centuries-long legacy of dispossessing, enslaving, exploiting and discriminating against nonwhites. After all, it's "racism" that (still) systematically "emphasizes difference" (re: ethnic/color supremacy) and antiracist survivors who have always "fought" for "commonality" (i.e. we are all equally human).
  • Wayfarer
    23.2k
    The firing of the Inspectors General by summary email is blatantly illegal. The law states that Inspectors General must be given 30 days notice of dismissal, on grounds that have been approved by Congress. Here is one of many tests wherein Trump will sign an executive order which is illegal, challenging Congress to act, but knowing full well that Congress is likely to kowtow. There will be many such instances as Trump methodically undermines the rule of law from within the Oval Office.
  • BitconnectCarlos
    2.3k
    Suppose we were to put it to a vote. The majority of voters are white- the group least likely to be victims of prejudice. Would it really make sense to eliminate it based on a majority vote? I don't think so.Relativist

    We should eliminate it because studies show DEI training makes people more racist. DEI doesn't work to promote colorblindness, it works to promote victim hierarchies and race consciousness. It fragments, not unifies. And the grifters at the top make bank.
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    Thanks for the article. I read it, as well as the study it linked to. The study results make a good case for some things not to do in DEI trainings. For example, it measured reactions to reading:

    “White people raised in Western society are conditioned into a white supremacist worldview. Racism is the norm; it is not unusual. As a result, interaction with White people is at times so overwhelming, draining, and incomprehensible that it causes serious anguish for People of Color.”

    This resulted in a backlash. This seems hardly surprising. Essentially telling people they are evil, but didn't know it, would piss people off and make them defensive.

    I was surprised to read that, according to the study, this sort of inflammatory language is common in diversity training. It makes me glad the study was done. I can absolutely agree that this is a terrible approach. But it doesn't mean diversity, equity, and inclusion aren't positive objectives, nor that effective training is impossible. In fact, it wouldn't be hard to purge this sort of thing from the training and focus on positive messages. I have in mind the sort of DEI training I received at Exxon-Mobil, which I described in another post.
  • Eros1982
    156
    From a political perspective you should be against illegal immigration whether you are a right-wing conservative or a left-wing liberal. As a right-wing conservative having millions of illegals in your country is translated to something like "lawlessness". As a left-wing liberal having millions of illegals is translated to something like modern slavery, extreme inequality and less democracy. Hence, politically speaking, legalizing or deporting these people are both correct. What troubles me with these current deportations is that Trump administration (out of convenience) seems to target mostly young males from Central and South America. It is more easy, I guess, for the administration to deport these males from neighbor countries, than deporting whole families to other continents (where there may be still wars and the administration will have to fight with the courts, NGO, lawyers, and so on).

    But I am wondering, now, how all this scheme is going to play out for the US economy and the cost of living. All these years I have been living in the US, I have come to believe that these males from Central America are the most hard-working people out there. I don't see them becoming burden to the government, like some other asylum-seekers who may come to USA/UK/EU just for the benefits. I hope someone tells Trump this.

    I don't know about you guys, but I do believe that these people from Central America work hard in the US and I doubt that the jobs they will leave will be filled by poor Americans :roll: Maybe those HB1 jobs may be filled by American graduates, but tomato picking and pizza making (twelve hours per day)? Will Trump really reduce the cost of living?
  • Tobias
    1.1k
    Dworkin's behind a paywall; please summarize.tim wood

    There are summaries, please do the leg work yourself and look it up. It is also discussed in Michael Sandel's lecture on the subject if I am not mistaken.

    Does it occur to you to ask why perhaps any one class of people might have a greater facility in some endeavor than another? The question presupposes one or the other of two possibilities, one essentially racist in itself, the other itself evidence of the need for some affirmative action.tim wood

    Yes, a great many things occur to me, thank you, but what are you implying? Indeed there might be a need for affirmative action, I am not disagreeing with that.

    As to the qualifications for any profession, are you one of those who wants all practitioners to be above average?tim wood

    It would be nice, though it is impossible. If all practioners were above average, the bar for 'average' would be raised. I would like there to be competent people yes, but competency is one of the possible criteria.

    We know even from posts here on TPF there is no such thing as race. We expect, then, in any setting free of racism - or any other kind of prejudicial discrimination - to find equal representation of all kinds of people, or if not to be able to determine why not. When that day arrives of equal opportunity and equal representation, then will be the time for affirmative action to be put to rest, but not until.tim wood

    Yes, I agree. It seems we are not in disagreement, and in agreement, also with Dworkin I think. Like I said, I think there are two arguments for affirmative action. One s reparation for past wrongs and the other is equal representation. The facetious counter argument of 'color blindness' is poignantly laid to rest by 180 Proof.

    @180 Proof :fire:
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    As a right-wing conservative having millions of illegals in your country is translated to something like "lawlessness". As a left-wing liberal having millions of illegals is translated to something like modern slavery, extreme inequality and less democracy.Eros1982
    Not really. The undocumented workers are making more in the US than they could in their home country. The fact we'd take advantage of that seems similar to choosing to purchase products manufactured in countries with low wages, because they're cheaper.

    Irrespective of the morality and legality, their presence is baked into the economy:

    "More than two-thirds of U.S. crop workers are foreign born, according to the USDA. Many of them came to the country through the H-2A visas, but officials estimate that 42% of the workers are undocumented migrants." -- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-deportation-plan-effects-undocumented-farmers/

    So the cost of harvesting will increase, and some may not get harvested at all.

    I have no statistics, but I understand home construction utilizes a lot of undocumented workers. Prices will rise.

    The Social Security trust fund will be negatively impacted:
    "In 2022, unauthorized immigrants contributed $25.7 billion in Social Security taxes, typically by working under borrowed or fraudulent Social Security numbers. Unauthorized immigrants, however, are ineligible to claim Social Security benefits."
    https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/immigration-social-security-solvency/

    Undocumented workers are consumers: they spend the money they make, so they contribute to GDP.

    I'm not suggesting we should have open borders, but rather that the full impact of proposed actions should be taken into account and plans adjusted accordingly.
  • Paine
    2.6k

    T administration has their best people on it.

    When Brooke Rollins was asked who would work on farms if the labor force was deported, she said she would address any ‘hypothetical issues that turn out to be real.Investigate Midwest

    The broad sweep of the federal raids has already prompted many workers to stay home in California.
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    Thanks. You've set my mind at ease. :rofl:
  • Paine
    2.6k
    The Federal Grant Freeze announced today has already started to draw lawsuits.

    The broad sweep is a thumb in the eye of the Legislative Branch as they involve appropriated funds.

    Since the order is so immediate, efforts are being made to get a restraining order to stop it.
  • Relativist
    2.7k
    I was listening today to a legal podcast, and they brought up an issue I hadn't thought of, regarding the withdrawal of Secret Service protection from people like Fauci,Pompeo, and Bolton. Even if one regards it as appropriate - why not do it quietly? Announcing it publicly served no public interest, and it suggests that he may want it known that they're now vulnerable. I hope nothing happens to any of them.
  • Wayfarer
    23.2k
    Announcing it publicly served no public interest,Relativist

    :rofl: Since when are Trump’s activities ever in response to ‘the public interest’? He’s driven wholly and solely by what Buddhists call ‘the three poisons’: hatred, greed and delusion.
  • 180 Proof
    15.6k
    Like I said, I think there are two arguments for affirmative action. One s reparation for past wrongs and the other is equal representation. The facetious counter argument of 'color blindness' is poignantly laid to rest by 180 Proof.Tobias
    Thanks, comrade. :fire: :mask:

    I hope all is well with you, Tobias, and that your corner of the world is not yet an oligarchic shitshow.
  • ssu
    8.8k
    "More than two-thirds of U.S. crop workers are foreign born, according to the USDA. Many of them came to the country through the H-2A visas, but officials estimate that 42% of the workers are undocumented migrants." -- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-deportation-plan-effects-undocumented-farmers/

    So the cost of harvesting will increase, and some may not get harvested at all.
    Relativist
    These kind of statistics were given and noticed in Brexit, btw, when people started looking at what the Poles and other EU-citizens were doing in the UK.

    And yes, you will get problems with these kind of policies. Or then the Trump administration will fail in it's policy. And that can very well happen. Remember the wall that Mexico would pay for?

    As I've said, Americans will have their own version of BREXIT-type economy under Trump, if he goes through with the deportations. It's simply math.
  • Wayfarer
    23.2k
    The first of the Trump Internment Camps for undesireables is on the drawing board.

    President Trump said he is signing an executive order on Wednesday to prepare a massive facility at Guantánamo Bay to be used to house deported migrants. The order will direct the Department of Defense and Department of Homeland Security to prepare a 30,000-person migrant facility at Guantánamo Bay, a facility in Cuba that has been used to house military prisoners, including several involved in the 9/11 attacks.

    Meanwhile, the 'funding freeze fiasco' is an example of the always spectacular Trumpian ham-fistedness. After practically paralyzing the entire Federal Government, Trump says, ooops, better not do that. But no doubt he'll keep trying. He hates Government, and he's in an ideal place to disable it.
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.