https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VrvhUU7Kok

Welcome to the forum!

Why to be ever unconditionally kind? — Atrox

Who says it has to be unconditional?

Why to be kind even? — Atrox

The normal thinking is: If you help others when they need it, they'll be motivated to help you when you need it. If it's all business, when your business fails, you're up shit creek, alone.

Also the same with honesty, why is it considered such a strong thing I do not understand. — Atrox

The general understanding is that when you have a reputation for telling the truth, people trust you. In order to get such a reputation, you have to tell the truth most of the time. If you get a reputation for dishonestly, people won't want to do business with you, and if you consider all of life business, you're up shit creek. Alone.

Maybe I am missing something, that is why I am here asking? — Atrox

Yes. And if you have to ask, it's likely no one will be able to assist you in understanding. You either get it or you don't.

I consider kindness to be one of the most important qualities I value in both individuals and organizations. Not that I always get there myself. However, language is inherently imprecise and open to interpretation. When I say I prefer non-judgment, compassion, and empathy, that's essentially what I mean by kindness. It's all too easy to judge, criticize, and deepen the divide between people. Of course, this perspective can be scrutinized or criticized in ways that miss the point, but such an approach would be an unkind one.

I don't want to be unconditionally kind ever to be honest, everything is business for me. — Atrox

Normally, when someone new posts to the forum I say "Welcome to the forum," but I won't here, because that might be construed as kindness. I wouldn't want to offend you. As you can see, the moderators have moved you to the lounge or, as we call it, the discussion graveyard. That's where it belongs. It's not philosophy, it's just spouting off. Ok, down to business. The other posters here have made good points. Here's my take.

Most people like most other people most of the time. We're social, we like hanging around with each other. Kindness and honesty are social lubricants that make society run smoothly. More importantly, they are how we show others that we are members of the same community. When I show kindness for someone, I'm telling them I recognize them and feel common cause with them. For most people, that comes naturally. Apparently for you it doesn't. You're not the only one here on the forum who feels that way. Cynicism is not a very interesting philosophical position or an attractive one. I hope you have more to offer than that.

Who says it has to be unconditional? — Vera Mont

:up:

Obviously nasty people end up with more money, and probably more happiness too. That's the reason it's praiseworthy to be kind. If people are just kind in order to get something instead of because they care about the people they're being kind to, then there's nothing noteworthy about the kindness.

That more strength is required to do make sacrifices that make your path harder than to follow the path of least resistance to make your path easier... well, that should be so obvious I don't know how to explain it further.

If you like to be a horrible person and find kindness revolting, you're probably an American conservative and that's how your value system works. You'll go far and trample over the corpses of the kind, unless others of your ilk out-compete you in the race to exploit.

I can't see the link of not being kind with conservatism. I guess you might refer to the selfish way of acting that is common in the spectrum of this political ideology. Nonetheless, there are conservative groups out there that do kind acts. For example, Christian—and other religious groups—that are educating children in underdeveloped countries. Look at Catholic missionaries in Papua New Guinea, for instance. I am sure they are both kind and conservative.

I know they are not perfect, but I would not call nasty to a missionary, even if his ideas are conservative.

"Hi there. Why do you imagine any of us gives a flying fuck whether you are kind or not?" He says, unkindly.

Hope I don't misrepresent it.

The philosophical answer for everyone is, "be as you are until you decide to be something else".

The followup is: if you're happy on your path, maintain it; if not, seek change.

Nonetheless, there are conservative groups out there that do kind acts. For example, Christian—and other religious groups—that are educating children in underdeveloped countries. Look at Catholic missionaries in Papua New Guinea, for instance. I am sure they are both kind and conservative.

I know they are not perfect, but I would not call nasty to a missionary, even if his ideas are conservative. — javi2541997

Missionary work has a history of very unkind and brutal acts. Taking children from their parents (in Australia), forcing religious conversions to Christianity - that kind of thing. My school did missionary work in central Australia in the 1970's and 1980's and I remember the minister saying it would be better if Aboriginal Australians would die out. I recall the Peter Singer quote about charity - Much of what we call charity does not really address the core problems; instead, it often simply makes donors feel better about themselves. Or they are doing it, conditionally, for their idea of God and for the reward.

The idea that conservatives are unkind probably stems from their habitual opposition to protections and welfare services for disadvantaged people (healthcare, housing, etc) and for generally being unsupportive of women's rights and LGBTIQ rights (as we are seeing hints of again in the US under Trumpist politics).

Also the same with honesty, why is it considered such a strong thing I do not understand. I think being honest is terrible but stoicism argues agains it. I would rather be someone ahead in life than honest loser. Maybe I am missing something, that is why I am here asking? — Atrox

Ahead of what? In relation to what?

Almost across the board, people who are on their deathbed regrets missed social relationships. They regret not having something more meaningful with friends and family. People don't regret being kind and missing out on business riches.

Your philosophy about life is this modern condition of binary polarized ideals. It's either unconditional love or it's individualistic egotism, with the latter favored through the lens of self-actualization in business and getting rich. A pushed ideal by online influencers and the demands of the modern attention economy, raising new generations into the very type of life that older people recognized destroyed their sense of meaning in life.

The undercurrent of neoliberal capitalism that fuels this new lifestyle and morals has been called the new church after religion disappears, but it's only in our modern times we see the zealots of this new church.

I wonder, when life finally gives you the riches, after you've let down and dismissed anyone around you who cared, what then? When you have your castle, when all love you get are illusions from paid servants and you have all material gain you could ever wish for; what then?

It's clear that people today don't grow up. They don't really mature into social beings, they don't understand why being social is crucial to life. People growing up today seem to get stuck in development; in the phase of childhood when they start to become independent before forming the meaningful social bonds that stay with them long into adulthood. And it shows up in how they keep childish traits far into their 20s and sometimes 30s.

But at some point they will hit the age in which social relations shows itself as being the most important. When the existential horrors start to creep into everyday life and all the money in the world can't heal it. And they can sure try and distract themselves with all those riches, but at some point they will find themselves alone among plastic illusions that mean absolutely nothing.

That is, if they even get to that point of financial gains. Most will just chase that meaningless dream and find themselves lacking both social life and financial life. Becoming the angry incels who rage in dark corners of the internet about how their situation was everyone else's fault but themselves. Ending their lives in that meaningless state rather than turning their backs on that kind of ideal once and for all.

Why be kind? Because it rewards you with kindness. It's a trait that can be universalized into actual well-being compared to the opposite.

Not being kind turns people into individuals that no one cares about. They might believe they're fine, but no one cares about them anymore. If they fade away alone, what did they actually gain? What were they actually "ahead" of? By what metric are they "ahead" in life when they, at best, end up in the pathetic state of kings over nothing?

The existential horror at the end of their lives would be something to sympathize with if it weren't for us always trying to tell them this is the case. Their arrogance and attitudes led them to it and all they actually got was alienating any kindness they would have been given if they gave it themselves. At some point people will just not care anymore and their death becomes an irrelevant footnote in everyone else's lives as they dine together and appreciate each others kindness.