• Athena
    3.2k
    My family is going through a rough patch and the core of the problem is a poor understanding of love. I think you all might help with your wisdom about love. What is love and how do we know when we are loved?
  • Shawn
    13.1k
    I asked ChatGPT this question, seemingly since it is important... Have at it.

    Love is a complex and multifaceted emotion that can take many forms, including romantic love, familial love, platonic love, and self-love. Here are some key aspects of love:

    Connection: Love often involves a deep emotional connection with others, characterized by feelings of attachment, care, and understanding.

    Compassion: It includes a desire for the well-being of others, often leading to acts of kindness and support.

    Trust and Vulnerability: Love typically requires a degree of trust and the willingness to be vulnerable with another person, sharing thoughts and feelings openly.

    Commitment: In many relationships, love entails a commitment to one another, fostering loyalty and stability.

    Passion: In romantic love, passion can play a significant role, encompassing physical attraction and a strong desire for intimacy.

    Growth: Love often encourages personal growth and development, as it can inspire individuals to be their best selves and support each other’s goals.

    Acceptance: Love involves accepting others for who they are, including their flaws and imperfections, fostering a sense of belonging.

    Ultimately, love is a dynamic and evolving experience that can bring immense joy but can also involve challenges and sacrifices. It enriches our lives, providing a sense of purpose and connection.
    — ChatGPT
  • tim wood
    9.2k
    Being older, mine has evolved. Which implies that different people at different ages in different cultures may have different understandings. It seems to me that we're all (radically) alone, not one big collective island of humanity (pace Donne*),but each separate, individual. Love is the effort to bridge and connect one person to another. Why? Ultimately because it feels good and is good, for well-being and health of all kinds. We're all creatures that function in part with and through internal feedback. Love is a way of adding feedback, from self and others. As such, it seems to me, the essential ingredient is trust. We must trust, and the object of our trust must be trustworthy. And from trust, be (able to be) open and share.

    Which in turn implies that love is not always going to happen for/between particular people. Then the accounting has to recognize cost, that what has been already spent is a sunk cost, and the person is probably best advised to move on. Lots of people make accommodation for lacking love - and maybe have to - and call that "love." And maybe there's good in that. But it's not love, and in respect of love, it is instead slow death. But to return, the without-which-not is trust.

    *John Donne, Meditation 17.
  • T Clark
    13.6k
    What is loveAthena

    The closest feeling I have to love unalloyed with other factors such as desire, expectation, and obligation is my love for my three children. It came to me as a force of nature - immediate and uncaused - automatic, like a switch being switched. It's a feeling of affection, respect, interest, protectiveness, and commitment. Most importantly, it's unconditional - it doesn't expect or require any response or acknowledgement.

    how do we know when we are loved?Athena

    There are a few people in my life who have shown me they feel for me something similar to what I feel for my children. I don't feel like they owe it to me, but it feels wonderful. A gift.
  • wonderer1
    2.2k
    It came to me as a force of natureT Clark

    Yeah. Before my first child was born, I knew that I would love her, but I didn't come close to anticipating how intense the emotional reaction would be when I first saw her.
  • Outlander
    2k
    My family is going through a rough patch and the core of the problem is a poor understanding of love.Athena

    If you know that to be a fact, you should have no problem helping them understand. Meaning, if you truly understand something others purportedly don't, what's the problem?

    It seems to me, though this may be a bit dismaying (or simply wrong) to sentimental types, what most people call love is a simple sense of being able to relate to something or someone, seeing one's own self and potential in things to the point it instills a sense of purpose and self-worth that did not exist prior resulting in a fundamental change of identity and priorities. A quote I feel quite relevant: "We love a rose because we know it will soon be gone; whoever loved a stone?"

    Why do we love our kids and not any of the 2 billion other children who are just as special for no logical reason? Because by nature, love is not logical. No sense of "understanding", great or poor, is going to remedy what is intuitive and largely subconscious.

    We see our own frailties and strengths, a bit of our own essence in things we love. We love our pets, living beings that seem to show conscious awareness and affection, emotions, positive and negative, eyes we can look into, heartbeats we can feel, breath we can observe, things that we ourselves value and fear losing. I loved my dog, because I can relate to it as a sensory, vulnerable being. I can't say I'd feel the same about a pet roach or even a lizard, despite both beings being miraculous nearly unfathomable examples of the miracle of life. It's as if they don't feel emotion, or rather, they "ignore" my own and pay me no mind, going about their business as if I didn't even exist. You really can't love something you either don't understand or cannot relate to or that otherwise pays you no mind. You can be fascinated, even in awe, but you won't feel love toward it.

    Hope this didn't come off as crass, just a few well-intended personal musings is all.
  • T Clark
    13.6k
    Before my first child was born, I knew that I would love her, but I didn't come close to anticipating how intense the emotional reaction would be when I first saw her.wonderer1

    Before my first child was born, I wasn't sure how the whole love thing worked. I've never grown emotionally attached to pets, so I wasn't sure how I would feel about my children. Then, like I said, it was like a switch. Makes me think maybe Darwin was right.
  • Moliere
    4.5k
    I like Erich Fromm's theory of love in The Art of Loving because he casts it as an art that one can learn.

    A paragraph on Wikipedia summarizing:

    Fromm contrasts symbiotic union with mature love, the final way people may seek union, as union in which both partners respect the integrity of the other.[24] Fromm states that "Love is an active power in a man",[26] and that in the general sense, the active character of love is primarily that of "giving".[27] He further delineates what he views as the four core tenets of love: care, responsibility, respect, and knowledge.[28] He defines love as care by stating that "Love is the active concern for the life and the growth of that which we love", and gives an example of a mother and a baby, saying that nobody would believe the mother loved the baby, no matter what she said, if she neglected to feed it, bathe it, or comfort it.[28] He further says that "One loves that for which one labours, and one labours for that which one loves."[29]

    Also, I got many good references the last time I broached this topic, and even though I followed up on those readings the question of love is still one that is philosophically interesting to me.
  • Paine
    2.3k

    I like the way Kierkegaard talks about it. Love builds up. Beyond forms of affection (or the seeming absence of such), love assumes the presence of love. Looking for proof of it is to step away from it a certain distance.

    Fidelity in marriage is more than not committing infidelity. Love builds up. If one or the other completely stops doing that, a light does go out. In my mind, that is different than the struggles that cause much of the friction of relationships. Honesty suffers a lot of slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.
  • wonderer1
    2.2k
    I like Erich Fromm's theory of love in The Art of Loving because he casts it as an art that one can learn.Moliere

    :up:
  • wonderer1
    2.2k
    Makes me think maybe Darwin was right.T Clark

    Yeah, that clearly came from something about me that was built in deep! It makes a lot of sense, when you think about the time it takes human children to be able to fend for themselves.
  • fishfry
    3.4k
    Five feet of heaven in a pony tail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtmRTeOZyxI
  • unenlightened
    9.1k
    My family is going through a rough patch and the core of the problem is a poor understanding of love.Athena

    I'm sorry to hear that. I will venture some small insights that haven't been mentioned. It is a grave sin to test love. Because the test can only be to destruction. "Will you still love me if ... ?" The answer never satisfies until it becomes 'no'. We are all finite, and we all have a breaking point.

    And do not measure or compare; do not count or keep an account.

    And half remembered from Ursula LeGuin, I think — "Love is like bread, you cannot preserve it; it has to be made fresh every day."
  • Patterner
    859
    You two nailed it. Before they're born, you know you'll love your kids. It's a given. Then it happens, and you realize you had no idea. To steal a line from comedian Larry Miller, it's like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing it. It's not a decision. It's like breathing.
  • Patterner
    859
    And half remembered from Ursula LeGuin, I think — "Love is like bread, you cannot preserve it; it has to be made fresh every day."unenlightened
    She's as good as it gets!
  • T Clark
    13.6k
    To steal a line from comedian Larry Miller, it's like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing it. It's not a decision.Patterner

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  • BC
    13.5k
    According to the Apostle Paul, "Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, it is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails." (I Corinthians, 13)

    According to John the Disciple, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13)

    Some nice looking gay guy said: "Love is a combination of lust and trust." Word Is Out, 1976

    The Greeks said that there are at four kinds of love: Eros, Agape, Filos, and Storge. Storge [pronounced 'stor - gay'] is the natural love and affection of a parent for their child. It is described as the most natural, emotive, and widely diffused of loves.

    Love III by George Herbert, 1593-1633

    Love bade me welcome: yet my soul drew back,
    Guilty of dust and sin.
    But quick-eyed Love, observing me grow slack
    From my first entrance in,
    Drew nearer to me, sweetly questioning
    If I lacked anything.

    "A guest," I answered, "worthy to be here":
    Love said, "You shall be he."
    "I, the unkind, ungrateful? Ah, my dear,
    I cannot look on thee."
    Love took my hand, and smiling did reply,
    "Who made the eyes but I?"

    "Truth, Lord; but I have marred them; let my shame
    Go where it doth deserve."
    "And know you not," says Love, "who bore the blame?"
    "My dear, then I will serve."
    "You must sit down," says Love, "and taste my meat."
    So I did sit and eat.
  • BC
    13.5k
    It came to me as a force of nature - immediate and uncaused - automatic, like a switch being switched. It's a feeling of affection, respect, interest, protectiveness, and commitment. Most importantly, it's unconditional - it doesn't expect or require any response or acknowledgement.T Clark

    Sounds like storge, described as the natural love and affection of a parent for their child; the most natural, emotive, and widely diffused of loves.
  • T Clark
    13.6k

    An ugly name for a powerful thing.
  • LuckyR
    473
    The OP implies that there is one entity called "love". However most agree there are different types of love. Some are described as a burning fire, others as glowing embers.

    When someone really has your back, that's being loved. It's easy to be romantic when things are going well.

    But the bigger issue is what it says about someone's life experience (and make up) who needs to ask the question. Nothing dramatic, I hope in your family's case. Good luck.
  • BC
    13.5k
    I disagree with @LuckyR that inquiring into the nature of love reflects something significant about the inquirer. I hope your rough patch is smoothed out soon. Families are often the site of failed love, unhappily. It isn't that the structure of "the family" is flawed; it isn't that "love" isn't enough; it is just US, flawed, inconstant, fickle beings that we are. What was it that Tolstoy said? All happy families are alike? Or was it all unhappy families are all alike. Happy or unhappy, WE are kind of all alike, and bring about the same kinds of problems in infinite variety.

    One thing I've seen in my own family: long term stress erodes good behavior.
  • Patterner
    859

    Humans are the worst. It's hard to articulate how stupid we are. We know love is the best thing about life. We know you can't use it up, because giving love only generates more love. And yet, we so very, very ... very often blow it.

    Pride is one of love's biggest enemies. I can hold my pride tight, or I can give and receive love. I can't do both. They're mutually exclusive.

    As Ed learned on Northern Exposure, low self-esteem is also a big problem. It's difficult to accept love when you don't think you're worthy of it. And it's difficult to give love when you think your love isn't worthy.

    Fear. "What if it's too late?" "What if s/he doesn't feel the same any longer?" But, if you don't try, you definitely lose.
  • Alonsoaceves
    2
    Compassion is the embodiment of love. Through mutual understanding, we cultivate the willingness to connect and love unconditionally. When we show compassion to others, we also nurture ourselves. Ultimately, isn't the union of consciousness – where boundaries dissolve and we recognize our shared humanity – the true essence of love?
  • Athena
    3.2k
    Thank you everyone. I read all the posts and will contemplate them and my experiences with love as I drift off to sleep.
  • Vera Mont
    4.1k
    What is love and how do we know when we are loved?Athena
    There are different types and flavours and degrees of love.
    They all begin with regard: some particular person is more significant to us than other people are, for some particular reason. That person is somehow special.
    Parental love begins in ego: This is my offspring, my DNA, my legacy. But then the baby becomes a separate individual, who is special because... of its vague unfocused eyes, its ultra-fine hair, its smell, its velvet skin, its tiny hands curling around our finger (that makes most fathers gaga from day 1) its total helplessness and need of care and protection: it makes us heroes. And then love grows and expands in milestones, in challenges, frustrations, accomplishments, hardship and sorrows as the baby grows. Love changes over time, over the development of a new, increasingly autonomous individual. It's never the same from day to day and yet is constant from year to year.

    Filial love, fraternal love, friendship, all go though changes over time. But they are all grounded in regard for that other person who is special to you for some particular reason.
    Romantic love goes through changes, too. Sometimes it dies young, because its roots were shallow. Sometimes it lasts a lifetime and beyond, because its roots are deep: because the other person is special for reasons fundamental to your own well-being and happiness.

    How do you know if you are loved? How does the other person treat you? Do they make you feel small and stupid, or interesting and accomplished? Do they support your ambitions or applaud your failures? Do you trust them with an embarrassing secret? If you called them at 3am because you're stranded at a closed mall due to your own foolishness, would they come to get you?
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