The overarching desire was to quit smoking, and it took you a few attempts to find the method suited to you. — Metaphysician Undercover

Not exactly. The previous attempts were at the urging of spouse, or because of the usual arguments about what's good for you. They worked for a while - I mean, I really tried to quit for those reasons, and the resolve lasted from three to six weeks. But I couldn't write on just cheese and coffee, and i was crabby all the time and didn't like myself. When it became a matter of life or death, it suddenly got a lot simpler.

The end goal is to quit, but the successful method varies depending on the person. — Metaphysician Undercover

Sure. I'm just saying that for success, it's more productive to concentrate on the positive outcome - what they want - than to dwell on the negative - what they want not to. And that the decision must be made.

s pretty obvious that the exact thing which you need to care about more than smoking, to stop smoking, is not-smoking. If you look into the scientific research on the subject, as my brother did when he quit smoking, you'll find that what has been proven as the best way to quit smoking is to have a strategy, a method, or procedure, and to adhere to it. — Metaphysician Undercover

Right, but I don't disagree with that, and haven't said anything that should lead you to think I have. You will give up smoking if you care more about stopping than you do about smoking. You could have any number of reasons as to why you care more about stopping.

My point has only been that we care about what we care about, and we can't just magically decide to care more about something we previously cared less about—we need incentives to shift our concerns.

Attempting to discuss anything with you is usually an endless battle against strawmen. :roll:

My point has only been that we care about what we care about, and we can't just magically decide to care more about something we previously cared less about — Janus

I think that may be the most difficult and important issue in philosophy - can we change the orientation of our will, at will?

I don't see how we could, but I realize others disagree. The law allows for mitigating circumstances, but it seems impossible to determine where to draw the line. I think there is no rational warrant for praise or blame with humans any more than there is with animals, but of course if determinism is true then no one who praises and blames can help praising and blaming.

I think our society would be better without praise and blame; it is necessary to restrain criminals but there seems to be no rational warrant for wanting to take revenge out on them. I think revenge-seeking is emotionally, not rationally driven.

The previous attempts were at the urging of spouse, or because of the usual arguments about what's good for you. — Vera Mont

So these attempts were a matter of caring about something else (your spouse, your health), more than smoking. And this is what actually failed for you, the method which involved caring about something else more than smoking.

You will give up smoking if you care more about stopping than you do about smoking. — Janus

OK, so do you agree, that this is pure will power? Attempting to quit smoking because one cares more about not smoking than smoking, and having success this way, is a matter of the will deciding to change, for no other reason than to change, and this is successful. That is purely, and absolutely a matter of determining "sui generis what is significant for us, what we care about". And that contradicts what you said earlier: "The point is that we do not determine sui generis what is significant for us, what we care about".

My point has only been that we care about what we care about, and we can't just magically decide to care more about something we previously cared less about—we need incentives to shift our concerns. — Janus

Yes, people often do "magically decide to care more about something we previously cared less about", this is known as changing one's priorities. That is what deciding to quit smoking because one cares more about not smoking than smoking, is representative of. Its actually very common, and it is what gives the person incentive to shift one's concerns. You have the causal order reversed. You seem to think that some random event must happen in the universe, a change in the star signs or something which pulls at the superstitions, and this provides incentive for change to a person. In reality what is required is simply a decision by the person, change my concerns, along with the will power, and that is what creates the incentive, the decision itself, and the capacity to adhere to the judgement made.

Attempting to discuss anything with you is usually an endless battle against strawmen. — Janus

Such statements are an indication of denial. You reveal to me, through what you say, your own ideas, and when I interpret what you've said, you claim it to be a strawman. This is because what you say, and reveal about your own beliefs, is not consistent with the metaphysical principles which you hold. Instead of recognizing that your beliefs are inconsistent with your principles, and acknowledging that the principles you hold are not consist with your own experience, so that you ought to change those principles, you simply deny my interpretation of what you've already told me, as a strawman. In reality, as demonstrated above, when pressed, you contradict yourself because the metaphysical principles you profess are inconsistent with your beliefs.

So these attempts were a matter of caring about something else (your spouse, your health), more than smoking. — Metaphysician Undercover

No. What I wanted most was to not smoke. The method failed because it centered on a negative and thereby kept the craving ever in focus. What works is making a conscious decision to change direction and then proceed in that direction, concentrate on a positive goal and leave the habit behind, make it irrelevant.

I don't think it matters what you focus on, or what thoughts or feelings you have that motivate you to make a conscious decision, a commitment, not to smoke, provided you care more, are more motivated by, those thoughts and feelings than you are by your desire to smoke. It obviously won't work if you are more motivated to smoke.