Jesus, are there still people trying to square the circle regarding Trump? Apparently.

Hilarious.

Prepare yourselves for a second Trump term as President. Borderless Biden has been asleep at the switch too long. Financial crook or senile elder?

Financial crook or senile elder? — jgill

Senile crook :joke:

If you weren't sure that it's a cult this may remove all doubt.

Suit yourself: Trump offers scraps of his indictment outfit for $4,699.53 a pop

If the facts are that a President has immunity from federal prosecution for crimes he's been impeached for, but acquitted then it would be interesting to hear what other facts would make a difference.

‘Hunter Biden is the son that Donald Trump never had’ ~ Jimmy Kimmel (commenting on the content of Hunter Biden's indictment documents.)

I mentioned a few days ago scepticism regarding the NY fraud case against Trump org. Here's a strongly worded CNN OP on that. Again makes the point that the supposed victims of Trump Org's fraud didn't complain and made a profit from the transactions. It also seems to me that the judge is motivated by personal animus against greedy business practices. Pains me to say it, but best not to take shots at a bull elephant without having the right kind of gun.

I wonder if people realize that this thread in a nutshell explains why Trump might win a second term.

The disdain for ordinary people, the "all means necessary" approach confirming one's own moral bankrutpcy while pretending to have a moral high ground, etc.

We saw the same thing in the Netherlands, though a little less extreme.

The irony of it all is amusing, but honestly it makes me want to wash.

The best part of US politics is where politicians reach for legal means to remove an opponent instead, I don't know, have actual policies that improve the material conditions of your citizenry.

For now, said political opponent poses a larger threat to their power than the lack of trust and impoverishment of the people. However, those two will eventually converge at which point it's curtains for the system.

Such change seems to always happen through oddballs like Trump (and for us, Wilders), but ultimately they're a symptom of the real problem that is the system.

In a sense it's a good thing that change now seems to be on the horizon, because the longer it is forestalled, the more extreme the eventual swing will be.

I wonder if people realize that this thread in a nutshell explains why Trump might win a second term.

The disdain for ordinary people, the "all means necessary" approach confirming one's own moral bankrutpcy while pretending to have a moral high ground, etc. — Tzeentch

Anyone who would vote for someone like Trump and support his policies simply because they're offended by the disdain others have for them deserves such disdain. They're petulant children. Snowflakes.

If you're going to vote for him then do it only because you agree with the things he wants to do. Although, of course, that deserves its own kind of disdain.

If you have convinced yourself that feeling disdain for roughly 80 million people is normal, I doubt I'll be able to change your mind. Personally, I think it suggests disconnection from reality.

If you have convinced yourself that feeling disdain for roughly 80 million people is normal, I doubt I'll be able to change your mind. Personally, I think it suggests disconnection from reality. — Tzeentch

If 80 million people will vote for Trump just because their feelings are hurt by Biden voters then 80 million people are idiots.

Talel is incorrect when he says that no bank confronted the false accounting statements. Deutsche Bank did so as the scope of the fraud became known:

It was now lawyer versus lawyer.

"As you know, Donald J. Trump is required under the terms of his loan guarantees to provide annual financial statements to Deutsche Bank and to ensure that those statements 'are true and correct in all material respects,'" the bank's attorney, Gregory Candela, wrote, quoting from the guaranty agreement for the $170 million Old Post Office loan.

Candela repeated Deutsche Bank's request for "further information" on the AG's fraud allegations. Then he upped the ante, saying the bank needs that information in order to decide "whether an event of default may have occurred." — Laura Italiano

The fact that the loan payments were paid on time has nothing to do with the stated value issue. That the bank profited from an undervaluation is not sustainable for institutions that establish conditions for other customers.

The Executive Law Section 63 that Talel refers to has the following duties assigned to the office:

12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal
acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the
carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general
may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the
supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an
order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any
fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an
appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue
of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law
or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court
may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem
proper. The word "fraud" or "fraudulent" as used herein shall include
any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception,
misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false
promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term "persistent
fraud" or "illegality" as used herein shall include continuance or
carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term
"repeated" as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and
distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than
one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies
recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state
official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject
to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.

In connection with any such application, the attorney general is
authorized to take proof and make a determination of the relevant facts
and to issue subpoenas in accordance with the civil practice law and
rules. Such authorization shall not abate or terminate by reason of any
action or proceeding brought by the attorney general under this section.

Talel's claim that the law has never been applied before this case repeats Trump's claim of the same. That is challenged by the following report:

Trump’s claim that statute 63(12) has “never been used before” is false, with the New York AG using the law to bring lawsuits against such parties as a leasing company, e-cigarette company JUUL Labs and a predatory lender company. The Trump Organization case isn’t even the first time 63(12) has been used against Trump and his businesses, as former AG Eric Schneiderman previously sued Trump University under the statute, which resulted in a $25 million settlement in 2018. — Alison Durkee

The disdain for ordinary people, the "all means necessary" approach confirming one's own moral bankruptcy while pretending to have a moral high ground, etc. — Tzeentch

It seems you have located a basket of deplorables. This charge of moral and intellectual hypocrisy is as dismissive as the one you complain about.

Are the '80 million people' all being humiliated for not sharing liberal values or do some think they are being ripped off by other people and see the language of equal rights being one of the ways that happens. The game is rigged to benefit certain people. Trump promises a turkey in each of other pots to cover the loss.

The talk of "wiping out vermin" may not concern them. Accordingly, they will have little control over how those agendas will be carried out.

In a sense it's a good thing that change now seems to be on the horizon, because the longer it is forestalled, the more extreme the eventual swing will be. — Tzeentch

It is evident that you have your own model of how the game is rigged. Theories of political economy do not represent all that is at stake in shaping and providing for a civic society. We cannot afford the luxury of Lucretius watching the ship sink at sea while standing safely on the beach.

Bla, bla. Whinge a little harder about the mess you yourselves create.

Create, that is, according to your model.

Who am I in it? Who are you? Were you damaged by this creation you reference?

For the most part, I am just observing. Like I've said many times before, all of this would simply be amusing if it wasn't for the widespread suffering it creates.

You charge me with complicity in a destructive force and then gloat about your view from a commanding height.

Pretty ripe from the bloke scorning easy contempt.

You charge me with complicity in a destructive force and then gloat about your view from a commanding height. — Paine

Indeed.

And for the record: that the type of simple-mindedness that inhabits American politics has such a presence on a philosophy forum is a traversty in and of itself.

Which part is simple minded?

That is what you assert but do not support except by noting it is something you have observed.

All contempt, no cattle.

Which part is simple minded? — Paine

:lol: Come on, man.

Thanks for that thorough report, it is comforting to know that there are substantive issues.

Thanks for considering it.

There are substantive issues at stake and Talel has every right to point to problems with the law. I was disappointed that he exaggerated his version of the situation to dismiss the merit of the trial.

The former president enjoys some clear advantages. About a third of Republicans are fiercely loyal to him, meaning that he has the unwavering support of a small but potent segment of the broader electorate. Once he is presumably crowned the Republican nominee, which seems inevitable and will probably occur by Super Tuesday, the GOP’s electoral and fundraising machine will whir into motion on his behalf. In all likelihood, the leaders in his party will unite behind him. Large numbers of Americans will vote for anyone running as a Republican against a Democrat.

Trump’s media supporters, above all at Fox News, will offer support, propagating a set of myths about his record in office, particularly the supposedly great economy over which he presided. Trump will be able to run as both an incumbent, because he’s a former president, and an “outsider,” as in 2016, because he is out of office. That will make his attacks on the “deep state” and his own persecution narrative more convincing. Trump intends to use his various criminal and civil trials as proof that “they”—the Biden administration—are going after him because he represents “us”—his voters. A certain segment of the public will buy into these messages.

https://apple.news/AEOopt4aoSqOq-F3n-FsxMQ

The mystery of the missing binder: How a collection of raw Russian intelligence disappeared under Trump

A binder containing highly classified information related to Russian election interference went missing at the end of Donald Trump’s presidency, raising alarms among intelligence officials that some of the most closely guarded national security secrets from the US and its allies could be exposed, sources familiar with the matter told CNN.

Its disappearance, which has not been previously reported, was so concerning that intelligence officials briefed Senate Intelligence Committee leaders last year about the missing materials and the government’s efforts to retrieve them, the sources said.

In the two-plus years since Trump left office, the missing intelligence does not appear to have been found.

The binder contained raw intelligence the US and its NATO allies collected on Russians and Russian agents, including sources and methods that informed the US government’s assessment that Russian President Vladimir Putin sought to help Trump win the 2016 election, sources tell CNN.

The intelligence was so sensitive that lawmakers and congressional aides with top secret security clearances were able to review the material only at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, where their work scrutinizing it was itself kept in a locked safe.

The binder was last seen at the White House during Trump’s final days in office. The former president had ordered it brought there so he could declassify a host of documents related to the FBI’s Russia investigation. Under the care of then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, the binder was scoured by Republican aides working to redact the most sensitive information so it could be declassified and released publicly.

...

But an unredacted version of the binder containing the classified raw intelligence went missing amid the chaotic final hours of the Trump White House. The circumstances surrounding its disappearance remain shrouded in mystery.

James Comey’s appointee Charles McGonigal, a top player in the Russia hoax, was just convicted to 4 years for colluding with Russian oligarchs. The whole time they were trying to frame their political opponents as Russian agents, they were harboring them in their own house and on the tax-payer’s dime.

Former FBI spy hunter gets prison time for giving information to Russian oligarch

https://theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/15/fbi-russia-charles-mcgonigal-convicted-spy-hunter

Truth is often stranger than fiction. Still... Even if Trump hasn't been proven to be guilty of collusion with the Russians, that doesn't mean he's been proven innocent. It's a fact Putin interfered in the 2016 election on Trump's behalf. Why is that? It's also a fact that Trump said “Russia, if you’re listening — I hope you are able to find the 30,000 [Hilary Clinton] emails that are missing" at a news conference. He publicly requested Russia's assistance in interfering with the campaign. It's very clear to me now that Trump loves Putin, Kim Jong Un and authoritarian dictators because he wants to be one of them. Trying to install loyalists at every level of gov't, trying to overthrow the 2020 election results, and even joking about being dictator "only on Day One"... It's very obvious that he wants to be a dictator who won't willingly give up power. If we give him a second chance by voting him in on 2024, I believe he will succeed in destroying our democratic republic as we know it.

The CNN report reads like a dark comedy. The bungling ineptitude with which the documents were handled. The restraints put on Trump's reckless disregard. The redactions made before it was to be released together with what is claimed it would show but could not be shown because it unaccountably went missing.

People have been spitting that line a lot lately in the opinion section and among the pundits of legacy media. He's going to be a dictator. He's going to ruin democracy. It's like 2016 all over again. Then, without irony, these democracy defenders (it's always "our democracy") start telling the American people that voting for anything but the uniparty cannot be tolerated. Observe Robert Kagan, a neo-con editor at the Washington Post. He often writes of the coming Trump dictatorship. But his wife is Victoria Nuland, the architect of the Ukrainian scheme, who's work has arguably brought war to Europe's doorstep. Though she worked for Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden, Trump asked her to leave. So it's no wonder Kagan's propaganda reads so personal.

Like his joke about the Russians finding Hillary's missing emails, which she likely destroyed, they're going to use Trump's dictator joke as another piece of propaganda. It would be laughable propaganda from any other view, but from within the grips of this mass hysteria it's par for the course. It's just a shame to see it has worked so easily.