For the plutocrats America was great before Roosevelt and the New Deal.

I didn't think it was conceivable that Trump would win in 2016. He was a non-serious candidate, a reality TV star with no political experience, a real estate flim flam man with rambling speeches that were obviously never fact checked or pre-written. He seemed like the opposite of presidential. At the time, I was pretty sure he was only running to raise his brand and get attention. Yet, he won. There are enough Americans out there who make things unpredictable and you should never rule anyone or anything out, no matter how inconceivable it is at the time.

Also, never underestimate a Democrat's ability to fumble the ball right before crossing the finish line.

It’s Biden’s DOJ. The attorney general reports directly to the president. The attorney general is on Biden’s cabinet, and advises Biden. His DOJ is currently indicting his political opponent in more than one frivolous case. It’s the same DOJ that allegedly slow-walked, obstructed, and ignored IRS investigations into Biden’s criminal son. As a result, Biden’s son won’t have to pay taxes on more than $400,000 in unreported Ukrainian income for the years Biden was vice president. A slow-walk, a plea deal; they resolved what should have been a federal criminal case at the same time the charges were filed in court. Imagine if that was anyone else.

Biden has been a lying, partisan, career politician for half a century. Hell, he’s been holding on to classified documents from the 70s with zero repercussions.

That being said, I think Biden is only a sock puppet in all this. He is not running the country.

Whataboutism is not a legal defense. Both things could be true: Trump could be guilty of crimes and Hunter Biden could be guilty of crimes. Both may also be getting special treatment: Hunter may be getting a slap on the wrist, and Trump had 18 months to turn over classified documents after being repeatedly and patiently asked nicely. Honestly, the Hunter Biden discussion is a completely separate topic. It's like bringing up Jared Kushner getting paid $2 billion by the Saudis. There is probably grift and shady stuff on both sides. We can say "what about this, what about that" all day and go on these tangents... But conservatives bringing up Hunter Biden or Hilary Clinton and any alleged wrongdoing they were involved in doesn't exonerate Trump from anything he was indicted for. I don't hear a lot of conservatives arguing that Trump is innocent. The reasoning seems to be rather that Trump may be guilty but should be allowed to get away with it since Democrats (allegedly) have committed similar crimes, and/or because he's a political opponent of Joe Biden. I don't see any reason why Trump should be regarded as having some sort of invisible, legal force field around him simply because he's an ex-President and Presidential candidate for 2024.

But conservatives bringing up Hunter Biden or Hilary Clinton and any alleged wrongdoing they were involved in doesn't exonerate Trump from anything he was indicted for. — GRWelsh

True, but it’s so fun to watch! So let’s not spell out the stupidity too much.

They’re all plutocratic criminals that get special treatment. That being said, Trump is in a league of his own.

They’re all plutocratic criminals that get special treatment. That being said, Trump is in a league of his own. — Mikie

Yes, the league of "too stupid not to get caught".

The argument is that Biden’s DOJ is benefitting Biden while trying to ruin his political opponent. That’s not whataboutism, I’m afraid, nor does it imply (let alone was it argued) that one exonerates the other.

Unfortunately you can only push that stuff aside and avoid the argument for so long because even the appearance of any conflict of interest puts the whole system itself into doubt, which is the very reason many people don't trust any of these allegations. If you don't care that the justice system is two-tiered, just say it, move on, and continue to nod your head with whatever Biden's justice department tells you is the case.

I'm suspicious that the only reason Trump is running for president again is to try to avoid all of these legal challenges. I think it's why he announced his candidacy so early, as well. If Trump were not a candidate for 2024, no one would be able to make the argument that Biden's DoJ is trying to ruin his political opponent. Simply by running he effectively throws up a smoke screen of "the charges are all political" no matter what they are or who they come from or what their merits are. I'm also suspicious that Trump intends to pardon himself if he gets re-elected after being convicted of any crimes. We knows he's discussed the possibility of pardoning himself before.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-pardons-idUSKBN29C2Y6

I can't think of a bigger red flag that a president or presidential candidate is corrupt than for him to entertain the possibility of pardoning himself. No one should have this power.

Have you ever criticized Trump here?

It’s Biden’s DOJ. — NOS4A2

Those who favor autocratic rule would have us believe that the DOJ does not and should not act independently.

Trump is quite transparent in his intention to put the unitary executive theory into practice. Agencies like the DOJ would not longer be able to act independently. All would be under his control, demonstrate their loyalty to him, and have as their purpose to do his bidding.

Trumpsters would have us believe that there is nothing radical or dangerous about this. That it is established practice. Hence, "Biden's DOJ". They are playing both sides, claiming special treatment for Hunter Biden while supporting Trump's attempt to establish a unitary executive.

Of course if Trump loses to a Democrat then there would be a 180 degree turn around and Trumpsters would accuse Democratic leaders of wrong doing by doing the very thing that Trump has set out to do.

We know that Trump did try to exert influence over his own DoJ on particular issues. For example, he pressured them to “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the R. Congressmen.”

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-elections-donald-trump-campaigns-presidential-4e7e68e2ff57aadd96d09c873a43a317

In my opinion, the gov't branch that appoints the Attorney General shouldn't have the power to fire him. So, if the Executive branch has the power to appoint the AG, it should either be the Legislative or Judicial branch that has the power to remove the AG. That would help the AG and DoJ to act more independently.

I thought it was pretty telling that "Trump's AG" Bill Barr said there wasn't any evidence of widespread election fraud. Very shortly after that, he resigned.

Simply by running he effectively throws up a smoke screen of "the charges are all political" no matter what they are or who they come from or what their merits are. — GRWelsh

It’s fairly obvious this is one big reason. Trump is easy to predict.

Of course if Trump loses to a Democrat then there would be a 180 degree turn around and Trumpsters would accuse Democratic leaders of wrong doing by doing the very thing that Trump has set out to do. — Fooloso4

That’s just about 100% certain, yes.

Let’s remember the fact that the Never Trumpers damn near kneecapped Trump at the 2016 Convention. You can only imagine what will happen at the 2024 Convention if he were the nominee (which I’m sure he won’t be.)

Apparently they’re on it https://apple.news/AuWeVrjq2S16H2tjkoitkDQ

Well 538 has him running ahead in the primary polls and primaries pull the most rabid voters.

It’s obvious that he’s ‘leading in the polls’ but in this case there are, ahem, other factors to consider.

Don't be coy, please expound for us these other, ahem, factors.

Trump is under multiple indictements, and by year's end will be under many more. For those inside the Fox media bubble, these are simply 'instruments of the corrupt state trying to destroy the greatest President the US has ever had.' Those outside know they are likely to be fatal to his candidacy.

The argument is that Biden’s DOJ is benefitting Biden while trying to ruin his political opponent. — NOS4A2

That "argument" is a political allegation unsupported by evidence. The irony is that there was abundant evidence of Trump's efforts to influence the DOJ. It's as if Trumpists think that was normal, and thus assume Biden is following suit.

Trump faces more charges over Mar-a-Lago secret documents case

'Six weeks after he was indicted in Miami on 37 charges relating to sensitive documents taken from the White House after he left office, Trump has been hit with an additional charge of “wilful retention” of national defence information and two new obstruction charges.

The additional charges form part of a “superseding indictment” that was returned by a grand jury in Florida.

As part of the latest indictment, a third person, Mar-a-Lago maintenance worker Carlos de Oliveira, was also charged in addition to Trump and his valet, Walt Nauta.'

That "argument" is a political allegation unsupported by evidence. The irony is that there was abundant evidence of Trump's efforts to influence the DOJ. It's as if Trumpists think that was normal, and thus assume Biden is following suit.

Do you think the DOJ is an independent agency of the US government?

Let’s remember the fact that the Never Trumpers damn near kneecapped Trump at the 2016 Convention. You can only imagine what will happen at the 2024 Convention if he were the nominee (which I’m sure he won’t be.) — Quixodian

He's the frontrunner. He'll be there. There's a good chance he'll be the next president.

There's a good chance he'll be the next president. — frank

Zero chance, I say. Let's revisit later, because it won't become clear for a few months. But he's only ever won one election, every one since has been on a downward trajectory and he hasn't done anything to convince anyone other than his fanatics that he's worth voting for. He would be on a loosing trajectory even without having to juggle multiple federal and state lawsuits.

Zero chance — Quixodian

He's the frontrunner, so he'll probably be up against Biden. So his chances are about 50%. That's how close presidential elections are here.

He would be on a loosing trajectory even without having to juggle multiple federal and state lawsuits. — Quixodian

He's the frontrunner, so he's not on a losing trajectory. He has a good chance of beating Biden.

He's the frontrunner, — frank

In the polls. But as I said above, there are many, many other factors in play in this case.

In the polls. But as I said above, there are many, many other factors in play in this case. — Quixodian

Like the law suits? That won't stop him.

Your faith is touching, but I'm not falling for the schtick.

Your faith is touching, but I'm not falling for the schtick. — Quixodian

:rofl: What a weird thing to say.

Gift article from the Washington Post about how the continued GOP defense of Trump is going to cost the party.

even without the legal baggage, Trump would face an uphill climb to match his 2016 results. Democratic pollster Celinda Lake and documentary filmmaker Mac Heller recently wrote for The Post that “between Trump’s election in 2016 and the 2024 election, the number of Gen Z (born between the late 1990s and early 2010s) voters will have advanced by a net 52 million against older people.” Put differently, the 2024 electorate will be younger and more Democratic — by a lot — than the electorate that chose Trump in 2016. The GOP will be pleading with a less Trump-friendly electorate to ignore his alleged crime spree and re-elect the Jan. 6 instigator.

If it seems fantastical, even unimaginable, that a party would put itself in such a position, remember this is a party that obsesses over Hunter Biden, elevates to prominence Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) and still won’t admit that Joe Biden won the White House in 2020. Maybe it’s time to acknowledge that, barring an epiphany, the GOP’s self-delusion is risking a political wipeout that will take out more than its disastrous nominee. And it won’t be able to claim it wasn’t warned. — A Republican nightmare seems about to become real