Is the second law basically mathematical ? Something like the law of large numbers ? Is it basically the fact that there are more states that we call disordered than there are ordered states --- so that any change of state is likely to be toward disorder ? — plaque flag
Any thoughts on Stuart Kauffman ? He seemed legit in a couple of video lectures. — plaque flag
If it fits in at all, where does consciousness fit in ? Does it play a crucial role ? Perhaps you've already said it and I didn't understand. — plaque flag
- hahahaha 1-0 for youyou might get more responses if your post was more than "Go and research Zizek for me so I don't have to." — bert1
- actually, I find pretty good and with potential to help me on this matter. But for some reason, he sees me as a materialist trying to debunk ZIzek, or at least that's my impression.I hope you enjoyed your encounter with apohotep — bert1
Consciousness is loaded jargon. It speaks to a Cartesian substance. — apokrisis
And then the Second Law was shown to be a special case of the more general thing of dissipative structure - at least in my view. — apokrisis
Do things 'want' to dissipate ? Or do we just project this telos because things tend to dissipate ? — plaque flag
Do you know of any resources that give a great overall intro ? I love bigpicture first then zoom in. — plaque flag
The point here is for the scientist to accept all four of Aristotle's causes and not pretend nature is reducible to just bottom-up construction by localised material and efficient causes. — apokrisis
The Second Law is simply a globally inevitable tendency or propensity. But recognising this as telos at its simplest possible level is still recognising that it is a universal drive that causes order in the Cosmos. — apokrisis
This one won't work for me.
Was it merely empirical for Darwin to recognise that evolution is the inevitable shaping hand of nature? — apokrisis
Do you see us participating in [ coconstructing ? ] a shared symbolic realm ? I like to think of us as tribal [ timebinding ] software running on local biohardware. — plaque flag
I am truly willing to take off reductionist goggles (which is not to say it's easy.) — plaque flag
:up:This is standard social psychology. Not at all peculiar. How else could it have been? — apokrisis
But surely if you are into Hegel, you can’t have got anywhere without understanding how his triadic system describes logic as the holist would see it? — apokrisis
I offered a Brandom quote above that focused on unstable impersonal conceptual schemes that increase in complexity and comprehensiveness. For Kojeve's Hegel, this 'is' time (as the movement of the embodied 'software' coming to understand itself and what knowledge is.) — plaque flag
I take from Hegel the idea that 'subject and substance' (symbol and the symbolized?) are entangled and not truly separable. — plaque flag
there are lots of ways to interpret and focus on Hegel, — plaque flag
It all goes back to the Zapffe's break in nature. Talk about a break in symmetry! Humans have created a huge asymmetry. — schopenhauer1
apokrisis relies too much on the comforts of statistical norms as somehow "telling", but discredits the idea of bad faith. — schopenhauer1
But we are nature. We were implicit in Nature, which had to give birth to its wickedest and most beautiful child. — plaque flag
When meaning itself can not be justified, yet we "fear" the consequences of this or that, something went askew. — schopenhauer1
Either that or I’m actually competent in the maths and metaphysics of statistical thought. That is my unfair advantage. :grin: — apokrisis
Never said we weren't part of nature, but just a really asymmetrical one that is out of sorts with the other parts. There is no justification for why we must do anything, yet we act as if we do! And here we have the tensions of PoMo and Evo Devo. We have human development and language.. The "constraints" of the system, but then order takes shape, but then this creates the ultimate disorder of NO JUSTIFICATION. As a deliberative language-bearing ape, is one that cannot escape having no justification at the end of its long journey. You don't have to work. You can die. You can fear death, but you can do go beyond what you fear. You can get by doing any number of things. — schopenhauer1
There is no justification for why we must do anything, yet we act as if we do! — schopenhauer1
The "constraints" of the system, but then order takes shape, but then this creates the ultimate disorder of NO JUSTIFICATION. — schopenhauer1
Justification is part of the way humans cooperate and compete, it seems to me. — plaque flag
I agree with you to some extent but then you try to put the order where there is disorder.. symmetry where there is a large break in symmetry. — schopenhauer1
So yes, you can make a dichotomy of the subjective and the objective and so appear to create the two antithetical realms of the mind and the world. You can set up the standard Cartesian dilemma which results in a doubled reductionism. A belief in two disconnected substantial realms. — apokrisis
Science is eating up all your 18th C "romantic reaction to the industrial revolution" dialectical "truths". — apokrisis
Every step in the human journey can be seen as completely natural once you have the proper theory of nature. — apokrisis
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