Justification is part of the way humans cooperate and compete, it seems to me. — plaque flag
Perhaps you are misunderstanding me. My point was that such a separation was impossible or confused. The truth is the whole. — plaque flag
Is that metaphysical image actually the complex heart of a self-organizing, self-articulating reality ? — plaque flag
You give too much credence to this romantic notion of the romantic reaction to the industrial revolution. It was there in Ecclesiastes and Gilgamesh. — schopenhauer1
I am explaining the current conditions. There is no justification... — schopenhauer1
No other animal has that degree of abstraction, deliberation, and thus self-awareness. — schopenhauer1
The asymmetry or injustice or radical break certainly exists. But – as is always the case – it is entropic.
The human journey is about bumbling into whatever is the next entropic bonanza that makes itself available to our evolving intelligence. — apokrisis
:up:It does represent an exile from Eden of sorts. A break. — schopenhauer1
It is a challenging thesis. To self domesticate – become essentially peaceful and cooperative – we had to kill off the violent males until our primate reactive violence was tuned down to a minimum. We had to weed the Neanderthal alphas out of the gene pool. — apokrisis
Shaman rituals through nights in the long house would allow the deed to be debated and coalesce as the agreed right thing. Justification would hang in the air until it developed the weight of inevitability. — apokrisis
You sound like you want to make the separation secondary to the unity. Which would be the brand of Hegelianism that Fichte popularised. Hegel was striving to do what Peirce actually did. Show how unity is irreducibly triadic. — apokrisis
The way we humans model the world – using a rigourous and objectifying method – is also the causal logic of how that world itself works. It is how the Cosmos developed into being. — apokrisis
Eden and that break were created at the same time. — plaque flag
Eden = no self-awareness. No ability to be uber-deliberative and to thus be existential. There was a time when there was no break. — schopenhauer1
Even other apes, and complex mammals and birds don't have that kind of self-awareness. — schopenhauer1
There is no "you" having these thoughts without the romantic response to be the "unrequested self behind the forced social mask" that has a social history going all the way back to Ecclesiastes and Gilgamesh, as you so triumphantly proclaim.
But let's not derail another thread with your persistent Pessimism. That wasn't the subject here. — apokrisis
Sure, but they couldn't enjoy it. Youth is wasted on the young. — plaque flag
If memory serves, you lean toward indirect realism. Is that correct ? — plaque flag
Are you offering a model or a map that is not the territory itself ? — plaque flag
Zizek might not agree. — schopenhauer1
As I stressed earlier, the modelling relation says the map is a model of a territory with us in it. So it is a selfish view. An Umwelt as von Uexküll put it. Thus it ain't actually a map of a territory in the usual lumpen realist sense. — apokrisis
The map contains two fictions – the "self" and the "world". As Kant says, we are stuck in the phenomenal and cannot truly represent the thing in itself. — apokrisis
Schopenhauer is the philosopher of the Real, of the traumatic kernel that resists symbolization, of the traumatic encounter with the Thing that cannot be represented" — The Sublime Object of Ideology
:up:That is how they enjoy(ed) it. The enjoyment is not knowing. The Tao and Nirvana and Flow state we are always seeking. Broken tool man. — schopenhauer1
But on the other hand, this semiotic relation is what works for life and mind as encoding structure that can surf the world's entropic gradients with practiced habit. — apokrisis
The Real is what is out of our power, eludes symbolic interpretations and answers. — schopenhauer1
I think it's cool. It's paradoxical Romantic metaphysical psychoanalytic poetry. — plaque flag
Debord traces the development of a modern society in which authentic social life has been replaced with its representation: "All that once was directly lived has become mere representation."[2] Debord argues that the history of social life can be understood as "the decline of being into having, and having into merely appearing."[3] This condition, according to Debord, is the "historical moment at which the commodity completes its colonization of social life."[4] — Wiki
Actually I'm already a reader of Zizek and Debord. I wish I kept my copy of The Sublime Object... I did keep my Debord. Also read his weird autobio, cool stuff. — plaque flag
There's a strong tradition of pessimistic thought there. — schopenhauer1
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