That is just it, I do not expect them to assume differently, but it is certainly annoying. — Lone Wolf

Okay, I agree. I also find it annoying when others expect me to be like most other people, but alas, nothing can be done about it.

And I do not enjoy being seen and treated as something I am not; I just want a little respect. — Lone Wolf

While I don't know exactly what you're referring to, I'll take a guess - most men I've met (with few exceptions) treat women as sexual objects, but they don't think it's disrespectful. In their minds, they think a girl wants to be treated this way, so that she can feel good about herself, that she has power over them, and is attractive. And many girls do enjoy this actually, although it is immoral and shameful. I certainly dislike seeing it, and generally hate "locker room talk".

It's good you don't accept such treatment and want to be respected.

When a man and woman make love – both are vulnerable – but who is most vulnerable? The woman – lying down – legs spread – submits to a man. — Thinker

lol... I don't think that's true. As for who is more vulnerable, clearly the one who is physically weaker, that's obvious. But being vulnerable is not the same as being submissive. Indeed, one can be the vulnerable one, and also be the dominant one.

lol... I don't think that's true. As for who is more vulnerable, clearly the one who is physically weaker, that's obvious. But being vulnerable is not the same as being submissive. Indeed, one can be the vulnerable one, and also be the powerful one. — Agustino

Like I said - Unfortunately, many a man has missed this point.

Submission is not necessarily a bad thing. The giving over of oneself can be the ultimate act of love and devotion. If it is done right – it is not weakness – quite the contrary. There is wisdom in the female intellect which is unsurpassed in the human experience. It can be the apotheosis of all that is human. Women have something to teach – to all of us – they are mentors – mothers – inspiration – divinely blessed and gifted. Do not think of submission as a weakness – always.

Submission is not necessarily a bad thing. — Thinker

I did not mean to suggest that submission is a bad thing always, only that vulnerability does not equal submission.

>:O

How could I possibly answer those questions when I know only an infinitesimal fraction of all the women, philosophers and men on Earth? This is indeed a masturbatory survey, since there is no possibility of engagement in it. And you can take that last statement both ways.

Political correctness is a real disease isn't it? — Agustino

So, if I disagree with you, that must be because I'm trying to be politically correct, as opposed to because I think you're wrong.

So why does that upset you? Women aren't as effective leaders. — Agustino

It doesn't upset me, it gives me the creeps.

In my personal experience, I know as many women who are effective leaders as men. I've had many women as bosses. My wife, sister-in-law, and several of my neighbors are nurses with important leadership jobs - running clinic systems, managing intensive care units. The most forceful and competent person I know is my friend Gail. None of these people are super achievers. They are normal, everyday women. They're not Joan d'Arc or Golda Meir.

On the other hand, I know many men who are terrible leaders. I think you are hanging around with the wrong women.

Why is it considered an insult that women are on the whole less capable leaders than men? — Agustino

It's an insult because it isn't true.

You seem to go from "most of history's leaders were men" to "men are more effective leaders". That doesn't follow. — Michael

You're right, Michael. Mr. Augustino, please lay out some evidence of your position. As Michael notes, your logic so far is faulty.

How about this - Most of history's leaders were Asian, therefore Asians are more effective leaders. It's clearly because Asians are more intelligent. We know that because Asians are higher achievers in school than white people.

I'm still waiting for anything Trump has done along the lines of useful/practical things with respect to his constituency, things that positively affect his constituency's everyday lives. — Terrapin Station

Discussions about Trump are way off post.

Absolutely wrong. One is dominant when one has what another absolutely wants, — Agustino

You are clearly in great need of absolution. Try a Catholic website.

Some women have a way of making a man think he is in control, but in reality the guy does what the girl wants anyway. That would seem like a very skillful way of dominating. And the guy is not any the wiser...lol. — Lone Wolf

This is almost as creepy as what Agustino was saying.

Just do not assume that because one has seen from experiences that most women are mostly gentle — Lone Wolf

Are you married to a woman? Do you have a girlfriend? Have you ever had a girlfriend? Where did you get the idea that most women are mostly gentle?

If one wants to be really good at philosophy – you are going to need courage - a lot of it. — Thinker

Socrates had courage. Name me one poster on this website who has demonstrated courage in pursuit of the truth or anything else.

Are women generally submissive to men? Yes, I think they are. Why, the reason is obvious – men are physically stronger and bigger. Most men can physically dominate a woman. — Thinker

I'll ask this again - Do you know any women? Are you married to one? Do you have or have you ever had a girlfriend?

So one of my poll questions was - Are philosophers, regardless of gender, generally submissive or dominating? Most philosophers have strong opinions. I would think that very few people that come here want to be told what to think. Just as most people that go to church are asking for direction. So what does it mean for a philosopher to have a dominating intellect? It means that most philosophers have strong ideas about how things should be. I think this is a good thing. The problem is we have a little difficulty agreeing with each other – how things should be. In the end this is a good thing too because ideas get distilled into the highest order – sometimes. Sometimes we do not see the forest for the trees.

How many notable philosophers, in all of human history, have been women? Not many – a few to be sure – a little more in the last 100 years. Well, since we are talking about the forest and trees – why are most of the trees male? Is it because men are smarter than women? Is it because women don’t care about philosophy? Have women been welcomed, over the centuries, in philosophy – mathematics – science – theology – higher education – business – politics – the power elite? The answer to all these questions is – NO – women have not been welcome. In fact – quite the opposite – they have largely been denied access to the doors of power and knowledge.

Well – why not include women? The answer is very complex and very uncomfortable for a certain segment of society – men. You have all heard the saying that a man has 2 heads – right? The thing is - if you are a man – you never know which one will be in charge. You can see ample evidence of this fact in this thread. I find it embarrassing, although I am not surprised, to see sexual innuendo thrown about here. This is a serious subject – however – most men hate it. The reason is simple – no courage.

Men have controlled this world, with a few exceptions, with an iron fist for the last 5000 years. Have they done a good job? How are things looking today? Are you happy with the way things are turning out? Is Trump your man because he is so……..psychologically secure…….respectful…….self-effacing…….non-equivocating…….truthful? Is the world going in the right direction? Ah…..what direction would that be?

We are at a juncture in human history. We are running out of time to make course corrections. Women are our last – best hope for the future. I have said before on this forum that ideas rule the world. Not money – not military – not politics – ideas. Philosophers have a job – our job is to create new ideas. We desperately need to balance our ideas to be both male and female. Women truly are great thinkers – however – they think differently than men. This is a good thing. We don’t need the same thinking – we need new ideas and ways to live. We need women now more than ever.

How about the smell--has that changed? The sensory memory that comes to mind when I think of the downtown subway stops, like Park, is the smell of urine, old machine oil, and dirt. It's not an altogether unpleasant odor, but I don't think it has a future on Macy's perfume counter.

I do remember that screeching sound, too--from the 1969-70.

Where did you get the idea that most women are mostly gentle? — T Clark

Yeah, no shit.

As Ghengis Cohen said, "Well, if they are not, they should be!"

What makes the poll irrelevant (as written) is that when rated on the trait of aggressiveness, (where all the terms are well defined) males and female humans tend to end up in the middle in a bi-modal distribution, the statistically average male being slightly more aggressive than the statistically average female -- in the United States and Europe, at least. Saudi Arabia? Clearly not.

The males and females we remember (and who will probably end up representing their sex) are the people out towards the tail of the distribution -- but not way out. One doesn't have to go out to the 01st and 99th percentile to find examples. Percentiles 1-20 and 80 - 99 is enough of the tail to find actual and normal examples of noticeable submission and aggression in both sexes.

Submissive males and females are unlikely to end up in major decision making roles--not that there is anything deficient about them. Aggressive males and females are the ones who will be running things, not that there is anything superior about them--look at Donald Trump. No outstanding virtues there.

Pope Francis and the Dalai Lama are both good leaders and I don't think either one of them is AGGRESSIVE (capitalized for high testosterone levels). Besides, there are other features of personality. Confidence, probity, caution, good delegation ability, perceptiveness, planning ability, etc. Then there is stupidity, vacillation, crudity, self-centeredness, inability to plan one's way off an unfenced lawn, and so on which sometimes is found in very aggressive individuals.

Women truly are great thinkers – however – they think differently than men. — Thinker

If a woman is out by herself on the savanna and she notices that she is being stalked by a leopard, how will her thinking differ from a male's?

In what way did Marissa Mayer demonstrate uniquely female thinking in her management of Yahoo?

In what way is Theresa May's thinking been superior to say, Jeremy Corbyn, with respect to Brexit?

Was Mrs. Clinton's thinking superior to Mr. Sanders?

In what way was Margaret Thatcher's thinking different from any other (male) Prime Minister?

Some people (male and female) are superior thinkers, and most people (males and females) are not.

How about the smell--has that changed? The sensory memory that comes to mind when I think of the downtown subway stops, like Park, is the smell of urine, old machine oil, and dirt. It's not an altogether unpleasant odor, but I don't think it has a future on Macy's perfume counter. — Bitter Crank

The subway stations have been renovated, rerenovated, and rererenovated since the early 1970s. I haven't noticed many bad odors, but the wheels still shriek.

Are you married to a woman? Do you have a girlfriend? Have you ever had a girlfriend? Where did you get the idea that most women are mostly gentle? — T Clark

I am most certainly not married or dating a woman, as I am not homosexual. If you had read anything else that I wrote, it would be obvious that I am a woman and that I strongly advocate for not assuming that all women are gentle and nurturing all the time.

Some women have a way of making a man think he is in control, but in reality the guy does what the girl wants anyway. That would seem like a very skillful way of dominating. And the guy is not any the wiser...lol.
— Lone Wolf

This is almost as creepy as what Agustino was saying. — T Clark

T Clark, if you were Hanover I would THWAP you for being naïve but since you aren't Hanover, let me just say that what Lone Wolf was saying in the quote you posted, is directly out of the Female Players Handbook. Each gender has their own 'Players Handbook' and I am pretty sure you would recognize a page out of the males, as quickly as I can pick out the page of the females.
Think back to when you were dating a woman who you thought was the greatest person ever because she seemed to know what you wanted and thought what you wanted was a great idea herself. ;)

I said to myself I wouldn't reply to this thread, but it was too seductive.

Simply stated: As a young woman myself— I like being dominated by a powerful male—this only applies in the the sexual arena. Goodness, men over 50 are fantastically libidinous creatures.
Unfortunately, when it comes to intellectual capacity I have quite the time finding a man who is actually properly educated. It also seems that once I tell a gentleman my academic status they aren't interested. When will they learn that intelligence is horribly sexy.

Total control... Bing bing bang bang bing bing bing... you know what that is right? >:O

You're right, Michael. Mr. Augustino, please lay out some evidence of your position. As Michael notes, your logic so far is faulty. — T Clark

>:O Mr. Clark, I already cited that less than 5% of Fortune 500 company CEOs are women.

In my personal experience, I know as many women who are effective leaders as men. I've had many women as bosses. My wife, sister-in-law, and several of my neighbors are nurses with important leadership jobs - running clinic systems, managing intensive care units. The most forceful and competent person I know is my friend Gail. — T Clark

Sorry, none of that sounds like great leadership.

None of these people are super achievers. They are normal, everyday women. They're not Joan d'Arc or Golda Meir. — T Clark

Exactly!

Are you married to a woman? Do you have a girlfriend? Have you ever had a girlfriend? Where did you get the idea that most women are mostly gentle? — T Clark

You are aware you are speaking to a woman here in that comment right? Really, you don't even know what the hell you're doing Mr. Clark. You're completely in the dark. No clue what's going on around you. No clue.

Vrai. Ces chiennes enragées. — Bitter Crank

Tu veux apprendre le Français mon ami? >:O

I am most certainly not married or dating a woman, as I am not homosexual. — Lone Wolf

You must mean lesbian, not homosexual :P .

Lesbians are homosexual.

Lesbians are homosexual. — Michael

And homosexuals are gay. Thanks Captain Obvious! >:O

You're confusing. Why say "You must mean lesbian, not homosexual"?

Simply stated: As a young woman myself— I like being dominated by a powerful male—this only applies in the the sexual arena. — River