Liars lie because they want a particular narrative to be taken as true. Any bits of that narrative that happen to actually be true are going to be reported truthfully. I mean, this is obvious stuff. — Isaac
I see. So if Putin said 'X' then X might be true or it might not be true. — Isaac
Correct. But since he lies so frequently, it can be difficult to know which he's doing. — frank
As such, the fact that Putin repeats it has no bearing whatsoever on its likely veracity. Which was the point Manuel was making. — Isaac
If you think that Adolf Hitler was a peaceful guy and would have satisfied after gaining Danzig and the corridor to East Prussia and hence no WW2, you simply lack a lot.We can't be responsible for your lack of imagination. That you think resistance is either war or nothing is your problem, don't project it on to others. — Isaac
Catherine the Great said:The Russians have been saying that the matter of Ukraine is an existential threat to them since at least 2008, and it has been a hot topic way before. — Tzeentch
I have no way to defend my borders but to extend them.
Yes. It's like the ludicrously idiotic idea that if Poland would have accepted Germany's demands (Danzig and the corridor to East Prussia), WW2 would have been prevented and Hitler would have announced that "Germany is satisfied with it's territories" and Hitler's Germany and the World would peacefully coexisted until the present. As if Hitler would be that kind of guy, who builds up a mighty army and never uses it (and forgets everything he has promised to do in his book).
Of course it doesn't make sense. But the US has to be the bad guy. Always. — ssu
However when it comes to the war in Ukraine, Russia's aggression and imperial objectives are so evident, so clear, that is hilarious to uphold the "NATO enlargement made Putin do it" -card. — ssu
Sounds like a value judgement to me, which aren't very useful when trying to understand a political situation. What does it matter what you and I want? It has no impact on what is happening and why it is happening. — Tzeentch
And then they can take the line of Noam Chomsky that only Russians themselves ought to be critical about their country, Russia, and we ought to stick to being critical of only our own country / alliance. — ssu
You are talking to a Finn, you know that?You really think he will conquer Finland and Sweden and Germany? But how could he realistically do that and to what end? — Manuel
Imperialists see the World as zones of control. Other states can actually believe in the sovereignty of nations.So, the underlying premise seems to be "If a large country views its neighbor as its dependent client state, it is its right to control the government of that country". — schopenhauer1
If Russia would be a prosperous, functioning country that has lucrative markets for Ukraine's economy to export, it might be well that we would be talking about CIS as we talk about the EU. Yes, the Ukrainians had their Holodomor, but Russians also suffered during the Soviet Union, hence the attitude could something like modern Germany looks at the Third Reich today. (Not like Putin's Russia looks at Stalin today).If NATO isn't FORCING their will on Ukraine, and Ukraine vote in majority (democratically) to align more with NATO countries, then how is this wrong? Russia can also freely give to Ukraine as well.. But it seems that it rather align with NATO than Russia. That doesn't mean, ergo Russia gets to invade Ukraine because it didn't get what it wanted. — schopenhauer1
In a way, the war in Ukraine has given the chance for the West to avoid the really important debate about the War on Terror and especially the war in Afghanistan.Let’s look at what’s been done, what’s been claimed, and compare to the historical record. Some still claim that the invasion of Iraq was “good” and right, morally. That no WMDs were found is a fact either way. — Xtrix
Well, let's try. You aren't a Putin supporter and I'm not an American jingoist. (Not even a Finnish jingoist, even if I think of myself as being patriotic.)What’s more striking is that one cannot question further without either being labeled a Putin supporter or US jingoist. — Xtrix
Best military operations are those, when you accomplish your objectives without any shots fired. When it's something else than a war. Believe me, modern generals are really triumphant about these operations whereas the larger public doesn't notice them as no war occurred.From a military perspective, Crimea went rather well for Russia. — Manuel
Russia has a habit of having these epic fails in wars where some in their own hubris write off the whole country. They shouldn't do that. The bear can lick it's wounds and sometimes get smarter.Heck, even without this protracted war, after about a month, maybe two, this dream of his of negotiating with the rest as a great power seems to me to have vanished, because in reality, he can't make it happen. — Manuel
What’s more striking is that one cannot question further without either being labeled a Putin supporter or US jingoist. — Xtrix
The most scary thought is that if Putin would have stopped there, he might have gotten away with it. It might have taken a decade, but the likelihood of the West accepting de facto the annexation of Crimea would have been likely. But a gambler doesn't know when to stop. He had to have that land bridge to Crimea and Novorossiya. — ssu
Russia has a habit of having these epic fails in wars where some in their own hubris write off the whole country. They shouldn't do that. The bear can lick it's wounds and sometimes get smarter. — ssu
Well, let's try. — ssu
I think I've only seen one poster here supporting Russia and saying Ukraine is part of Russia, though I have not seen him post here in a while. — Manuel
Everybody else that I've seen, takes it as a given, that this war is a crime. I mean, it's obvious, I can't believe it has to be said all the time. — Manuel
Ukrainian neutrality and recognition of the Donbas/Crimea annexations by Ukraine in exchange for peace is a good compromise to you? — neomac
The most scary thought is that if Putin would have stopped there, he might have gotten away with it. It might have taken a decade, but the likelyhood of the West accepting de facto the annexation of Crimea would have been likely. But a gambler doesn't know when to stop. He had to have that land bridge to Crimea and Novorossiya. — ssu
You're pointing out that they could be telling the truth. That's irrelevant. — frank
If you think that Adolf Hitler was a peaceful guy and would have satisfied after gaining Danzig and the corridor to East Prussia and hence no WW2 — ssu
We can't be responsible for your lack of imagination. That you think resistance is either war or nothing is your problem, don't project it on to others. — Isaac
I'm not sure what you're having trouble with here. One can over water one's houseplants. One can under water one's houseplants. — Isaac
I'm only slightly surprised because I expect a little more from this forum, especially after 355 pages — Xtrix
That's a fallacious ad hominem, obviously. — frank
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