I'm not saying you are wrong. But how does someone outside that world, like me, tell the difference between the two? — Tom Storm

By applying analytical skills. The passage I quoted from Russell was one of his famous early essays, published turn of the century. It’s a very vivid statement of a certain cultural moment. You could write an analysis of it in an English class, or a history class. The tutor would say - what is Russell saying? Why does he say the world is ‘devoid of meaning’? What role does he think science plays in it? Why do you think he capitalises ‘Science’?’ And so on.

Nihilism really is the belief that nothing is real, and/or that nothing means anything. It doesn’t really matter what *you* think it means, that is the meaning. I’m saying that it is a bleak kind of emotional and philosophical disposition, that it drains the world of meaning. That is an objective claim. I might be wrong, but if you want to show that I’m wrong, then you need to say something about what these ideas mean, not just how you react to them or how they make you feel.

Another anecdote - I got into University after a dismal school career, as a ‘mature age student’ - a convention they no longer have. The subject of the examination, taken with pencil and paper, in an exam room, was a comprehension test on a passage from another of Russell’s essays, ‘Mysticism and Logic’. Right up my street, I thought, and indeed, I passed the exam, and went on to study just these kinds of subjects. Not that it’s provided any obvious benefits. But I’d like to think I know what it meant, and I guess, in some way, I have the credential to prove it. ;-)

You might not like science, but it's the state pushing it by law into the minds of the young. Like God once was.

Why does he say the world is ‘devoid of meaning’? What role does he think science plays in it? Why do you think he capitalises ‘Science’?’ — Wayfarer

Because that "devoid of meaning" fits his scientific ideal.

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's

This is one of the dumbest, most obvious pieces of made-up Roman propaganda ever put into the mouth of the invented Jesus character. Caesar was a dictator, a despot, a butcher, evil through and through. He and the Roman system stole the vast majority of what they acquired.
Why would Jesus tell the Jews to pay their taxes to a tyrannical system such as Rome?
Unless it was just Roman propaganda to get the rebellious Jews to do just that. Behave, accept Roman rule and pay the taxes Rome demanded.

I’m saying that it is a bleak kind of emotional and philosophical disposition, that it drains the world of meaning. — Wayfarer

The word disposition is useful. For all our reading and thinking, I suspect all we ever do is embolden our dispositions. Although I am aware some people do change their minds - perhaps they eventually encounter their true disposition? I think bleak almost describes my outlook fairly well. But it's also Camus-Sisyphus-cheerful, not lugubrious or defeated. It allows for all kinds of meanings and excitement. I don't see why it would not. I made a conscious choice to construct my own meaning when I was around 25. The ideas I went for are not original or profound, but they do. And yes, they probably owe their origins to the vestigial traces of Christianity, through secular humanism and a simple-minded utilitarianism, but they float in the air, they are not founded on certainty or transcendental promises.

"You live in a Christian nation, just suck it up." On the other hand, I believe the separation is important. — T Clark

I support democracy and majority rule but I certainly would never suggest dissenters just 'suck it up.'
Organise, protest, campaign, even engage in civil disobedience but I would also emphasise the importance of a non-violent strategy. Otherwise, you are not being true to yourself and agree to be like a carpet for those you don't agree with to freely walk all over.

Isn't it mandated religion should be kept out of school? — Hillary

So how do you account for the subject of RE (Religious Education) taught in all Scottish secondary schools and the fact that Scottish catholic schools are still very much allowed in the British system?
Half the schools here have the word 'Saint' in their names!

So how do you account for the subject of RE (Religious Education) taught in all Scottish secondary schools and the fact that Scottish catholic schools are still very much allowed in the British system?
Half the schools here have the word 'Saint' in their names! — universeness

Yeah, at Christian schools here you get one hour per week about the bible. One hour to much in my opinion but the rmmajority to learn is science. Is there one youngster with a diploma that shows a good performance in christianity? Com on brother Uni!

catholic schools are still very much allowed in the British system? — universeness

Yes, and rightly so. But the point is what is taught. The university I graduated from was christian too. It's even called the "free" university! Havent heard a word bout christ though. Only in the introduction week with other students.

No. Australians seem pretty apathetic and we largely lost interest in the republic idea some years back — Tom Storm

I do agree with your comment in a general, global sense right now that there is a great deal of apathy in the human global population. I think its a combination of 'we have no power to or are too scared to try to change things for the better of all' OR 'well, I know there is a whole lot of unfair shit going on in the world but I just wanna be able to pay my biils, look after my loved ones and enjoy my life.'
I think such apathy is present in all villages, town, cities, including the ones in Australia BUT I also think that below this surface, most Australians think that Monarchy is backward, immature and even ridiculous.

BUT I also think that below this surface, most Australians think that Monarchy is backward, immature and even ridiculous. — universeness

No real idea what Australians think. Most people I have spoken to over the past 20 years don't give a shit about a republic and can't see what difference it would make. And the ones that do are more interested in ending capitalism than the monarchy. I think people are more positive towards monarchy than they were in previous years, mainly because the royal family are the ultimate reality TV show, the ultimate Kardashians. Entertainment has become its own value system.

We need to work on 2 is what I'm saying. This is an uphill task for sure. Why? For the simple reason that to attempt amendment to the ethics of a religion is to accuse God, no less, of error. Lamentable, we've painted ourselves into a corner. — Agent Smith

We should never accept that the label on the tin, accurately identifies the tin contents.
From 'The right honorable gentleman/lady' through to priest/minister/pope/queen/king/president/Prime mininster/beloved leader and on to honest/wise/good/decent/man/woman.
The decent, honest, reliable, trustworthy individual must DEMONSTRATE that he/she is such.
That demonstration must be continuous and consistent.
We need strong, powerful, reliable checks and balances to stop nefarious b******* from gaining and maintaining power and influence.
All I need to do now is work out exactly how to achieve that on a global scale! :worry:

And yes, they probably owe their origins to the vestigial traces of Christianity. — Tom Storm

Indeed they do. Without that, we'd be living in a very different world, and there's no certainty that it would be a better one.

science is dull and boring — Hillary

Just because you and Tom feel this way about Science does not make it so.
I find Science wonderful and exciting.

@universeness

Here's something to cheer you up.

Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish. — Lao Tzu

Fractals might come in handy.

Is there one youngster with a diploma that shows a good performance in christianity? Com on brother Uni! — Hillary

Did those who become priests, ministers, bishops, imams etc not attend school? Were they not taught science? You were taught science and look what happened to you! :rofl:

You were taught science and look what happened to you! :rofl:
2m — universeness

:lol:

Aint it great!?

[quote="universeness;697515"]Just because you and Tom feel this way about Science does not make it so.
I find Science wonderful and exciting[/quote]

I dont think it is. But most youngsters do!

Here's something to cheer you up.

Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish.
— Lao Tzu

Fractals might come in handy — Agent Smith

I felt the windy woosh as that one flew right over my head? :lol:
'like cooking a small fish???????'
Fractals????
Are you referencing chaos theory? As in out of fractal chaos, order can naturally arise?
is frying the small fish some reference to the idea that 'I have bigger fish to fry?'

I dont think it is. But most youngsters do — Hillary

I do and I am no youngster, not physically or mentally!

Aint it great!? — Hillary

:lol: NO! it's a waste imo.

I do and I am no youngster, not physically or mentally! — universeness

Not sure I get this. You are no youngster. Okay. And you like science. Okay. Just like me. But still, most youngsters dont.

:lol: NO! it's a waste imo — universeness

Then stop thinking about gods! :lol:

I'm blind, I've never held a gun in my hand, and I'm shooting. What do you expect? :smile:

Not sure I get this. You are no youngster. Okay. And you like science. Okay. Just like me. But still, most youngsters dont — Hillary

Read what you type! YOU TYPED:

I dont think it is. But most youngsters do! — Hillary

You suggested most youngsters find science wonderful and exciting, like I do!

Then stop thinking about gods! :lol: — Hillary

Right back at you!!!!!

I'm blind, I've never held a gun in my hand, and I'm shooting. What do you expect? — Agent Smith

I expect you to ask someone to be your eyes and help improve your aim at least or stop shooting until you employ such assistance as shooting guns can be a very dangerous activity for a blind novice/neophyte! :gasp:

You suggested most youngsters find science wonderful and exciting, like I do! — universeness

I meant I find it not boring but most youngsters do. My dear mother of god brother Uni. Why the hostility?

Right back at you!!!!! — universeness

I like the gods. If you don't then you dont. I dont wanna talk about them gods anymore. Lets talk science!

My bullets are blanks! So the worst I can do is bruise someone! :snicker:

My bullets are blanks! So the worst I can do is bruise someone! — Agent Smith

:lol:

My bullets are blanks! So the worst I can do is bruise someone! — Agent Smith

Shooting blanks does not seem like a very useful activity to me but, each to their own! :smile:

I meant I find it not boring but most youngsters do. My dear mother of god brother Uni. Why the hostility? — Hillary

No hostility involved, just reaction to the words you type!

I like the gods. If you don't then you dont. I dont wanna talk about them gods anymore. Lets talk science! — Hillary

Life doesn't work that way! As the famous Judge Judy says on TV.
"Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."
I wonder if Judge Judy is often quoted on philosophy websites? :lol:
Oh! Laughing at my own attempts at humour again! :blush: