Love, love, love Tame Impala.

Feeling classic tonight...

Despite a bad experience at their concert with a creepy crust standing behind me, I still LOVE this song.

I'll leave it up to you philosophers to seek out the other 3 movements to this piece, as it doesn't exist as a single video or a playlist on youtube. But begin here, and be sure to listen all the way through to the last section of the piece, since the final section absolutely transcends the rest of the piece in a totally unprecedented way. You should be able to easily click through youtube uploads of the rest of the piece; if not, use spotify to find Reich's "Works 1965-1995" album.

Have you listened to Arvo Pärt? I'm a giant fan and though I do like minimalist compositions, there is a certain technical texture that a composer needs to have to be able to produce a powerful experience despite the repetition and simplicity. Arvo is legendary, in my opinion. I haven't heard of Reich, but I will fish out the album online.

With this one, I feel like I am desperately reaching out to someone, but they are not there, and though it is heartbreaking, I still continue reaching out.

Oh god, you know Part, but not Reich? Sorry, I get emotional about these things. Part is wonderful; simply beautiful because of his fearlessness and the beauty of his music. But Reich is beautiful because he's a mathematician. And I'm literally the last person to appreciate that about a composer. The piece I just posted isn't the best intro, maybe check out his most well known piece, "Music For 18 Musicians". Just keep in mind that European minimalism tends to be way different than the downtown NYC scene oft the 60's - 80's. Euro minimalism is more classically tonal; American minimalism is more a reaction against atonalism.

Btw, I'm not familiar with Summa for Strings, but it's very nice.

Edit: and what you say about reaching out to someone but never connecting is very true because this piece seems to constantly elude the tonic (the home pitch). It's there, but only fleetingly.

There aren't many people in this world that can make me feel ashamed of myself. Admittingly, I never heard of him but the one piece you posted nevertheless piqued my interest, and though I do not know enough about his work that now renders further investigation, there is that minimalist freedom that I appreciate, though I am not sure what you mean when you say a reaction against atonality?

I was supposed to go to yoga class but you have ruined that prospect :-}

Oh please, don't let me make you feel ashamed. Sorry. It's more of a classic musician's response to another musician, than anything else ("oh god, you don't know that record?"). Forgive me, it was unnecessary.

Well...as to a reaction against atonality, I see guys like Arvo Part, John Tavener, and Michael Nyman as strictly European "sacred" minimalists, who write minimalist music that's literally more religious and in line with a mystical or specific religious line of thinking, and so by result their music is more "classical" in the sense that it's more informed by the hard classical composers who literally had to write music for the church, as in Bach, etc.

Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Terry Reilly, et al, are all American minimalists who grew up in an Academic setting where the venerated people were Schoenberg, Messiaen, etc. (ironically European) and I'll be biased here and include one of my favorite Messiaen pieces (granted I still can't find a slow enough version on youtube; search spotify for a version that's about 9 mins long):



So anyway, that's a less atonal Messiaen piece. But the more atonal tendencies of these early and mid-modern dudes are all exactly the thing that the American minimalists were rebelling against. One of Glass's earliest pieces is this unlistenable solo violin piece where the violin practically plays triads the whole time; I can't even remember what's it's called. But that's how bold the rebellion was. Reich himself said, in some interview that I saw at some point, that he "simply didn't want to make atonal music." He just wanted to "make tonal music".

Here's a nice Philip Glass primer:



and some trippy, hippy Terry Reilly shit:



And btw, my favorite of the 3, here's Reich's Music For 18 Musicians:



[god, don't get me started...what am I doing on a philosophy forum...]

I finally got through them [half way through Reich] - people should use xylophones more often but I won't indulge in commenting until I have finished listening. I am not entirely sure I agree that a complete denial of tradition can be coherently possible without some constraint of one's own creativity; in the case of Part, he literally is describing and creating his own experiences. Maybe yes, the assertion that one needs to break free from the pre-conditioned structure of classical language has its merits, but is that foundational structure coherently reducible? I'm not sure, I need to read more.

I'm not a musician, I've only just started learning the piano but I have always been a fan of classical music and decided to start exploring contemporary composers, so I appreciate the guidance. To be perfectly honest with you, I have difficulty with trippy analogues, I can even struggle with John M. Cage. I think it is more the synthetic rhythms that causes me to remain focused or conscious and that annoys me, but for abstract stuff, I recently got a chance to see Dan Yuhas when I was in Israel I thought it was a great experience.


I never indulged in Phillip Glass but I could see him creeping up on me on those days where I feel like I'm just sick of everything, but not exactly stressed or anxious, more like disappointed and tired, where you don't really want to talk neither do you want to shut off and just having him on my iPod as I wander around.

what am I doing on a philosophy forum. — Noble Dust

What most of us highly intelligent loners do; we come here to relax. And dude, there is no need to apologise. Passion is way more important than social etiquette. :P

I'm kinda addicted to this song.

I am not entirely sure I agree that a complete denial of tradition can be coherently possible without some constraint of one's own creativity; — TimeLine

Well, any denial of tradition includes an acknowledgement of tradition, in the same way that atheism includes an acknowledgement of theism, just by definition.

Maybe yes, the assertion that one needs to break free from the pre-conditioned structure of classical language has its merits, but is that foundational structure coherently reducible? I'm not sure, I need to read more. — TimeLine

I'm not sure why it being coherently reducible is important. Classical structure lead to atonality, and then minimalism rebelled, but maybe that rebellion was just the next logical step. I mean, atonality continued and continues, even now. But now minimalism is replaced by post-minimalism. Some examples:

John Adams, possibly my favorite post-minimalist composer. This piece is for two pianos. Not an easy duo to write for! Twenty fingers...



Nico Muhly's Balance Problems, written for my favorite contempo-classical ensemble in NYC, yMusic:



With post-minimalism, listen for the development of simple minimalist repetitive structure; the structure changes more quickly, but still seems to retain a certain logic.

To be perfectly honest with you, I have difficulty with trippy analogues, I can even struggle with John M. Cage. — TimeLine

Cage is strange, but his early percussion music is cool (be sure to catch the sea shell horn!):



Not familiar with Dan Yuhas. It's interesting, seems to lean more atonal; not really my thing, but I'm always open to hear more stuff.

I never indulged in Phillip Glass but I could see him creeping up on me on those days where I feel like I'm just sick of everything, but not exactly stressed or anxious, more like disappointed and tired, where you don't really want to talk neither do you want to shut off and just having him on my iPod as I wander around. — TimeLine

I actually think he's overrated, but I also do love his music, I just don't place him on the same level as Reich, or Cage or whatnot. I don't spend a bunch of time listening to him.

I'm not sure why it being coherently reducible is important. Classical structure lead to atonality, and then minimalism rebelled, but maybe that rebellion was just the next logical step. I mean, atonality continued and continues, even now. But now minimalism is replaced by post-minimalism. Some examples: John Adams, possibly my favorite post-minimalist composer. This piece is for two pianos. Not an easy duo to write for! Twenty fingers... — Noble Dust

When I was in Florence a couple of years back, I went to a concert hidden in the backstreets where I was staying. I was - at the time - in an immeasurable amount of subjective pain and felt the pangs of a deep sorrow and there was probably a handful of people in this concert. When the quartet began playing "Dissonance" by Mozart, it was like a massive hand formed from the sounds and came over me as though it literally grabbed and took away all that pain.

When considering people like Arvo Part, the classical is and remains entrenched in European culture and so it should; it would be a lie in a way to disregard that influence and power. The suggestion of a complete abandonment of atonality to me seems somewhat impossible and there is a certain dishonesty about it that I am afraid becomes clear in some compositions, although I will agree that you correctly paint the picture of a gradual progression and ultimate change. The below is another one of my favourites, but you can sense the mixture between the slavic and the classical that makes Arvo Part well, Arvo Part. It makes him honest to himself through his music.



I wish there were more minimalist music with Cello. I love the Cello and I remember being told how much it would cost to buy one by a teacher at school. I could barely afford lunch at the time and it makes me wonder whether such music is really the sounds created by the privileged. But thanks for your intro in Reicht... ;)

it was like a massive hand formed from the sounds and came over me as though it literally grabbed and took away all that pain. — TimeLine

I don't want to disarm the potency of your experience here, but I had a similar experience when I was about 15. A feeling of a divine "hand" grabbing my whole being and silencing me, a hand that took my whole being into consideration and made things "right"...

the classical is and remains entrenched in European culture and so it should; it would be a lie in a way to disregard that influence and power. The suggestion of a complete abandonment of atonality to me seems somewhat impossible and there is a certain dishonesty about it that I am afraid becomes clear in some compositions, although I will agree that you correctly paint the picture of a gradual progression and ultimate change — TimeLine

Well, I don't know if the classical remains or should remain there; I think the American minimalists are enough to say otherwise. Now, I do personally agree with you when you talk about a complete abandonment of tonality. That complete abandonment does not meet with my own purely intuitive standards. And that's all I have to go on when it comes to tonality. That's the funny thing; I can wax poetic about whatever I happen to know or not know about tonality, minimalism, post-minimalism, etc, but when it coms down to it, if I don't personally like it, then it just doesn't matter. I don't ultimately give a shit unless it's dope. And a lot of contempo-classical is, decidedly, not dope.

I love the Cello and I remember being told how much it would cost to buy one by a teacher at school. I could barely afford lunch at the time and it makes me wonder whether such music is really the sounds created by the privileged. — TimeLine

Well...cellists themselves aren't exactly the privileged (my sister-in-law being an example); if anyone involved is privileged, I guess it would be the faculty who serve as the gate-keepers to cellists. But on the other hand, there's any number of talented cellists willing to play whatever's put in front of them, however, there's many fewer composers willing to write interesting music that involves the cello...so...

I don't want to disarm the potency of your experience here, but I had a similar experience when I was about 15. A feeling of a divine "hand" grabbing my whole being and silencing me, a hand that took my whole being into consideration and made things "right"... — Noble Dust

Scheisse, I'm not mad!

I can wax poetic about whatever I happen to know or not know about tonality, minimalism, post-minimalism, etc, but when it coms down to it, if I don't personally like it, then it just doesn't matter. I don't ultimately give a shit unless it's dope. And a lot of contempo-classical is, decidedly, not dope. — Noble Dust

Well said. (Y)

Well...cellists themselves aren't exactly the privileged (my sister-in-law being an example); if anyone involved is privileged, I guess it would be the faculty who serve as the gate-keepers to cellists. But on the other hand, there's any number of talented cellists willing to play whatever's put in front of them, however, there's many fewer composers willing to write interesting music that involves the cello...so... — Noble Dust

Yes, my housemate is an opera student and she has often asked for my advice on how to deal with what I view to be rather unique situations between students and the faculty, the latter having this puritan air that despises even the slightest deviation from the strict standards they impose that fails to be conducive to creativity with the remedy being a neurotic student cohort. I think it is really fearless of any composer to compose, let alone involving cello, let alone attempting to deviate from tonality.

Anyway, we've kind of taken over the thread... best stop for now. :D

I can't sleep :’( Rachmaninov is giving me the hug that I need.

Was listening to Portugal. the Man before they were cool...

I understand the guy. We're all blind. I love this song.

HAWAII BABBABBBBYYYYY!

https://www.facebook.com/JFYSofficial/videos/1476184449099131/

One of the only true hipster classics: