I knew you'd say that — Janus
Perhaps.. it's as simple as being able to question what it is to be unenlightened? And no, not @unenlightened, not necessarily that is. — Outlander
unenlightened — unenlightened
we fail to realize — TheMadFool
verb: realise
1.
become fully aware of (something) as a fact; understand clearly.
"he realized his mistake at once"
2.
cause to happen.
"his worst fears have been realized"
we fail to realize
— TheMadFool
verb: realise
1.
become fully aware of (something) as a fact; understand clearly.
"he realized his mistake at once"
2.
cause to happen.
"his worst fears have been realized"
Kind of like we all - well most of us - have legs, but if you are not fully aware of them, you won't cause much walking to happen. — unenlightened
Eckardt on Detachment
The mind of him who stands detached is of such nobility that whatever he sees is true and whatever he desires he obtains and whatever he commands must be obeyed. And this you must know for sure: when the free mind is quite detached, it constrains God to itself and if it were able to stand formless and free of all accidentals, it would assume God’s proper nature … The man who stands thus in utter detachment is rapt into eternity in such a way that nothing transient can move him …
Now you may ask what this detachment is, that is so noble in itself. You should know that true detachment is nothing else but a mind that stands unmoved by all accidents of joy or sorrow, honour, shame or disgrace, as a mountain of lead stands unmoved by a breath of wind1. This immovable detachment brings a man into the greatest likeness to God. For the reason why God is God is because of His immovable detachment and from this detachment, He has His purity, His simplicity and His immutability. Therefore, if a man is to be like God, as far as a creature can have likeness with God, this must come from detachment. This draws a man into purity, and from purity into simplicity, and from simplicity into immutability, and these things make a likeness between God and that man …
You should know that the outer man can be active while the inner man is completely free of this activity and unmoved … Here is an analogy: a door swings open and shuts on its hinge. I would compare the outer woodwork of the door to the outer man and the hinge to the inner man. When the door opens and shuts, the boards move back and forth but the hinge stays in the same place and is never moved thereby. It is the same in this case if you understand it rightly.
Now I ask: What is the object of pure detachment? My answer is that the object of pure detachment is neither this nor that 2. It rests on absolutely nothing and I will tell you why: pure detachment rests on the highest and he is at his highest, in whom God can work all His will … And so, if the heart is ready to receive the highest, it must rest on absolutely nothing and in that lies the greatest potentiality which can exist …
Again I ask: What is the prayer of a detached heart? My answer is that detachment and purity cannot pray, for whoever prays wants God to grant him something or else wants God to take something from him. But a detached heart desires nothing at all, nor has it anything it wants to get rid of. Therefore it is free of all prayers or its prayer consists of nothing but being uniform with God. That is all its prayer …
Therefore it is totally subject to God, and therefore it is in the highest degree of uniformity with God and is also the most receptive to divine influence …
Now take note, all who are wise! No man is happier than he who has the greatest detachment.
— Meister Eckhardt On Detachment — Wayfarer
1. Is unenlightened enlightened? No! Out goes everything about unenlightened - none of it is the mark of a buddha. — TheMadFool
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements." {I,v,9}
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements." {I,v,10}
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind." {I,vi,1}
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2} — The Buddha, Pabhassara Sutta
The mind is something more radiant than anything else can be, but because counterfeits – passing defilements – come and obscure it, it loses its radiance, like the sun when obscured by clouds. Don’t go thinking that the sun goes after the clouds. Instead, the clouds come drifting along and obscure the sun. So meditators, when they know in this manner, should do away with these counterfeits by analyzing them shrewdly... When they develop the mind to the stage of the primal mind, this will mean that all counterfeits are destroyed, or rather, counterfeit things won’t be able to reach into the primal mind, because the bridge making the connection will have been destroyed. Even though the mind may then still have to come into contact with the preoccupations of the world, its contact will be like that of a bead of water rolling over a lotus leaf. — Ajahn Mun
This mind is no-mind 1, because its natural character is luminous. What is this state of the mind’s luminosity? When the mind is neither associated with nor dissociated from greed, hatred, delusion, proclivities, fetters, or false views, then this constitutes its luminosity. Does the mind exist as no-mind? In the state of no-mind, the states of existence or non-existence can be neither found nor established... What is this state of no-mind? The state of no-mind, which is immutable and undifferentiated, constitutes the ultimate reality of all dharmas. Such is the state of no-mind. — Consciousness and Luminosity in Indian and Tibetan Buddhism
Soto Zen conceives of enlightenment or nirvana precisely in this way as practicing zazen; that is transcending the body and mind in maintaining perfect sitting posture. Dogen equates this with enlightenment because it is impossible to sit this way while being attached to the body and mind. — Janus
Bodhisattva means 'a buddha-to-be', ie. a person on the path to buddhahood, but not yet a buddha. — baker
Does anyone have comments on Nietzsche's ideas of self-overcoming? — Tom Storm
Does anyone have comments on Nietzsche's ideas of self-overcoming?
— Tom Storm
Someone once told me that it has to do with "being better than you were before". — baker
↪baker I think this is on the right track. Nietzsche conceived of the fundamental aim of all life to be, not merely survival, but power; by which I take him to mean, not power over others or physical strength, but power over oneself, over one's own desire for comfort, ease and distraction at the expense of flourishing and becoming the best you can be. — Janus
I read Nietzsche’s self-overcoming ( will to power) as being different than you were before, not better in the sense of some kind of cumulative progress or organic growth. — Joshs
is it being who you really are, which may not be an improvement? — Tom Storm
What is the impetus for transformation - is it being who you really are, which may not be an improvement? — Tom Storm
"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.” — Tom Storm
When it is in that place it must necessarily come to union with Intelligence, since it has been turned to it. And having been turned to it, it has nothing in between, and when it has come to Intelligence, it is fitted to it. And having been fitted to it, it is united with it while not being dissolved, but both are one, while still being two. When it is in this state it would not change, but would be in an unchanging state in relation to intellection, while having at the same time awareness of itself (synaisthesin hautes), as having become simultaneously one and identical with the intelligible (Ennead IV.4.2.25-34)
But as contemplation ascends from nature to soul and from soul to Intelligence, the act of contemplation becomes ever more personal [i.e., closer to the contemplating subject] and produces unity within the contemplator (III.8.8.1-8)
Often I wake up from the body into myself, and since I come to be outside of other things and within myself, I have a vision of extraordinary beauty and I feel supremely confident that I belong to a higher realm, and having come to identity with the Divine, and being established in it I have come to that actuality above all the rest of the intelligible world (IV.8.1.1-11)
What is the impetus for transformation - is it being who you really are, which may not be an improvement? — Tom Storm
You don't understand it as an idea of flourishing, but simply of change, whether for the better or worse? — Janus
Surely Nietzsche would have said that "being who you really are" is preferable to not being who you really are. It seem to me this is where the existentialist notion of authenticity comes into play. — Janus
I know my thinking is conventional but I wonder why be different if it isn't in some greater sense, better? What is the impetus for transformation - is it being who you really are, which may not be an improvement? — Tom Storm
and allowing oneself to get held captive (ascetic ideal) by any particular valuative concept of flourishing. — Joshs
But Nietzsche did not believe that the self is a fixed identity. That is one reason he is embraced by postmodern philosophers like Foucault and Deleuze , who see the self as socially constructed. — Joshs
The main problem seems to be that people want to be enlightened without being enlightened. In other words, they want to be at once what they are now and enlightened. — Apollodorus
We have no choice , because whether we like it or not, whatever valuative framework we choose will eventually collapse and be transformed from within its own resources( the best becomes the worst, good becomes evil) . — Joshs
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