Eh, whatever.

Joe Biden's pass of blame unto the Afghan military is just simply pathetic.

The former Maoist allies of the mujahideen are singing "Algeria, Algeria" and, for all that I play-act with my still beating and bleeding heart, so as to counteract near complete and total proliferation of false consciousness within a nation that, like fair Atlantis, lost what became the longest war in its history, I want to join them.

I think that we should have a toast to the decline of the American empire and offer an expression of solidarity to both the Afghans who want to flee and those who can't help but remain to participate within the new regime.

Salutations!
- to both the United States and the soon to be declared Islamic Emigrate of Afghanistan

They're amoral, misanthropic, dangerous lunatics. American ones are anyway. — frank

Many people who are amoral, misanthropic and dangerous lunatics aren't yet terrorists.

He was with Obama as VP for 8 years, so not much excuses.

Luckily another Benghazi didn't happen which would have legitimized house investigations, testimony, and pander from republicans. Yada yada

I will say that I do appreciate his commitment to end the war. It was kind of a publicity spin, but, as has been said before, what can you expect?

I have previously stated on this form that I did not vote for Joe Biden due to a lack of confidence. I will vote in the next election, however. Not that what I do really matters, but I would like to put on the record that it will be a vote of no confidence should he not adequately deal with the refugee crisis there.

Luckily another Benghazi didn't happen which would have legitimized house investigations, testimony, and pander from republicans. Yada yada — Shawn

Ummm....really?

You think a terrorist attack on one Embassy compound legitimized house investigations.... but not a catastrophic collapse of a 20-year commitment where about trillion dollars were spent, 2400 Americans and about 200 000+ people died isn't worth a house investigation?

To be honest, the kind of colossal failures that Trump-Biden did now DO NEED some debate in Congress. This was a botched decision making. Heck, even the Soviets did a better, nicer withdrawal and the Najibullah regime fell only sometime later. Only the British had it even worse, but that was the 19th Century.

The Soviet version:



The US version:



The Benghazi issue was this political theatre like Hillary's emails. I think we will have a large literature on why the US failed Afghanistan and could the withdrawal been handled better?

I suppose you don't live in the US or watch CNN and Fox News...

Benghazi was all you could hear during 2013 from Fox News and even CNN. Then there were the investigations and testimonies, and reports. Etc.

Benghazi was all you could hear during 2013 from Fox News and even CNN. Then there were the investigations and testimonies, and reports. Etc. — Shawn

Oh I do know them. Insane theatre, that continued then as Hillary's missing emails. It started as Benghazi hearings.

But this was the way Republicans had gotten their supporters worked up all the time with the Clintons. With continuing and continuing scandals and probes into these scandals. Starting with Whitewater. Then ending up with Bill's denial about his sperm on a intern's dress. The Clinton impeachment, remember? Ghasp! He lied about an extramarital blowjob under oath.



Use the same form with Hillary as she was the secretary of state.


Yet somehow I think things like the fall of Kabul is worth really an investigation. Problem is that it won't be looked as even Liz Cheney admitted it, as a failure in the making from both Trump and Biden.

So, the question is, who's to blame?

Well, here are the facts as far as I can tell:
1. Trump signed a deal with the Taliban.
2. Biden upheld it.
3. Evacuations were ongoing.
4. Taliban decide on taking over the country.

Whatever 5 or 5.1 or 6 are, we don't really know, but the justifications from the US will be that it was in the hands of the Afghan military (whatever that is) and a feeble and weak president of Afghanistan that both simply gave up and ran away.

— Shawn

1. Trump signed a deal with the Taliban.
2. Biden upheld it. — Shawn

A lousy deal (as usual for Trump, just like the deal with North Korea), which was followed with a lousy continuation of a bad deal.

First of all, Trump signed a deal without caring shit about a) it's allies and b) the Afghan government. Yes, partly those idiots didn't see the writing on the wall, but the real thing is to have the Afghan government and Taleban making the deal. That would have been were US foreign policy and diplomacy would have had to work. But who cares of those morons, just go a deal with the Taliban yourself and get some positive media light.

It's like Trump negotiating with North Korea and totally forgetting that there is a South Korea.

Let's just remember: a participant in a war will choose a peace deal ONLY if that peace deal is a better bargain than continuing war. This is a simple fact.

Here the obvious happened: US signed a peace deal without the Taliban not having to do much and also undermining the Afghan government with it.

Then comes Biden into office. And he doesn't understand that there must be a reason for the Taleban to opt for a peace deal, a stick. But no, Joe was worried that it would look bad if he wouldn't go with the military troop withdrawal and simply kept course. Then the Taleban just started a summer offensive because, why not?

And the Taleban didn't attack the US bases. They still haven't shot any bullets towards those helicopters and aircraft even now. But they sure didn't keep their promise. Why should they have? There was no stick, just all carrots for them.

Many people who are amoral, misanthropic and dangerous lunatics aren't yet terrorists. — ssu

Probably.

I think the Taliban is like organized crime. They control the traffic of heroine and meth, right?

I think the Taliban is like organized crime. They control the traffic of heroine and meth, right? — frank

There's no meth in Afghanistan; but, plenty of poppy and weed.

There's no meth in Afghanistan; but, plenty of poppy and weed. — Shawn

I read they expanded to meth.

On Vice? Link please.

Google Afghanistan meth.

So, the Taliban are going to be involved in meth trafficking apart from opium and weed. :death:

:eyes:

Yep. Apparently it's the only way to survive there.

The Taliban involvement in the meth trade, though I am sure that it will some rather drastic socio-political consequences, may not turn out as poorly as you might expect. When the Neo-Fascist bikers who tend to run methamphetamines adopt a Trotskyite-inspired "critical, but unconditional support" for the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan ostensibly justified through some sort of primitivist appeal to "tribalism", many on the far-Right may become willing to tone down its anti-Arab and anti-Muslim rhetoric, thereby eliminating much of the justification for their projected "racial holy war", and finally dissolve unto the now largely entryist, a problem that we anarchists both can and will cope, which is to say score drugs off of without collaborating, with, national-anarchism. They'll basically just want to fire rounds with tracers into kerosene tanks in some desolated part of the Pacific Northwest like any self-respecting gun owning Libertarian.

From there, they'll be smoking hash and spinning the Dead Skeleton's "Dead Mantra" in no time.

I think that this emotional but informative interview tells extremely well how badly the administration has dealt with this. And of course, when referring to the administration, it should perhaps be better to refer simply to the US government as a whole. It really doesn't stop with the Biden/Harris administration, but goes a lot further to four different administrations.

JOE BIDEN's handling of the situation in Afghanistan has been blasted by a republican Congressman, who admitted the US has more troops in Spain than Afghanistan.

OK this was so hilarious.

Spain could blow up at any time. We're on standby.

Spain could blow up at any time. — frank

Because of Catalonia riots or Catalan politicians pardons? :scream:

Madrid protests: Thousands rally against Catalan pardons

Holy shit, it's about to get real in Spain.

Knowing nothing about the circumstances surrounding or motivations for doing so other than that George Orwell once authored a text called Homage to Catalonia, I supported Catalan independence. I also supported Scottish independence because of that I thought that the "scene that celebrates itself" was too good for the United Kingdom. All that they did was put forth a referendum, though. It seems an injustice to have jailed them.

Cool. I wanted them out of Spain too because they do not stop wasting Spanish resources and economy. It is interesting that they say they can live from us but at the same time they are always asking to Pedro Sanchez a loooot of competencies and money.
I don't know what the future holds for Catalonia but I wish it did not affect us for bad like a civil war or something related

I do not remember the exact nature of our talk anymore :) Maybe I was right on that one. I have been wrong about a host of other things. History is easy to reconstruct after it has taken its course but difficult when one is in it. The Afghan war is really sad, I think one of the saddest episodes in recent history. It will be a black eye for Joe Biden too, especially because of his unfounded optimism regarding the Afghan military. I was heavily annoyed with the Dutch politicians who kept harping on what good things they did. In tandem we see a reconstruction of the Taliban as a much less harmful and perhaps even benevolent force. It is simply psychology writ large, the psychological necessity to downplay failure. It is heart breaking for the people who live there and who has worked for the respective governments. Dutch politicians reacted very slowly and now cannot even protect its own personnel there.

Knowing nothing about the circumstances surrounding or motivations for doing so other than that George Orwell once authored a text called Homage to Catalonia, I supported Catalan independence. I also supported Scottish independence because of that I thought that the "scene that celebrates itself" was too good for the United Kingdom. All that they did was put forth a referendum, though. It seems an injustice to have jailed them. — thewonder

Why would you support Catalan independence without knowing anything about it?

Joe Biden too, especially because of his unfounded optimism regarding the Afghan military. — Tobias

Biden did not have 'optimism' regarding the Afghan military. He simply lied, outright.

Which to be fair is nothing new considering they have been lying since day 1.

Interesting article, read it with great pleasure and it is convincing. The only thing I wonder about is why Biden was so confident when it is sure that such remarks would fly in his face only weeks or moths later.

Eh, any time there are any people who can be characterized as "anarchists" rioting anywhere, some commentator or another, as well as some anarchists, warn of an impending civil war, but I wouldn't be too worried about it.


Well, my Shoegaze motivated decision to support Scottish independence was considerably less informed. That decision was purely based off of My Bloody Valentine and the film, Trainspotting. It's just a notable absurdity to what some people consider for political choice. I don't know. You can't follow everything that happens in the world.

Alas, though, I will be off, and, so, this debate will have to continue without me. ☮︎!