You are probably right there. I think what tends to happen in so-called "liberal democracies" is that politicians come to power on certain promises that they make to win elections. In some cases they may even be serious about the promised policies. — Apollodorus
What you are saying seems to refer more to particular political parties and the position of individual politicians within those parties.
By state I meant more the organizational superstructure consisting of executive, legislature, judiciary, armed and police forces, etc., i.e. the thing that stays in place whilst governments or ruling parties keep coming and going. — Apollodorus
Yes, but it doesn’t follow that the state has no desire to stay in power. — Apollodorus
In the Brexit example, Prime Minister David Cameron called the referendum under pressure from the electorate and the UK Independence Party (UKIP).
However, (1) he was under no obligation to do so, and (2) he agreed to a referendum because he thought that the Remain camp would win. — Apollodorus
Corbyn is a different matter. There is no way telling what he would have done if elected. He operated in tandem with trade union leader Len McCluskey, an old-style Marxist who may have chosen to go for Remain.
In the event, Labour’s Marxist left wing was ousted by the Fabian Socialist right wing that was pro-EU and pro-Remain. And that was the end of Corbyn’s left-wing takeover. — Apollodorus
The State, the Church, the Corporation — Xtrix
C'mon, decades of voting against his own party and government, sacrificing his career, he was bound to be a PM guided by his principles. — Down The Rabbit Hole
I guess you never have heard about about the Mamluks then.No slavery I know has at-will employment, where both employee and employer can terminate the relationship whenever they choose and for whatever reason. No slavery I know allows bargaining between both parties. No slavery I know permits a slave to be an employer himself. In slavery one is forbidden to leave, has no say in the relationship, and is subject to the arbitrary whims of their master. — NOS4A2
No slavery I know has at-will employment, — NOS4A2
It’s weird to me to expect democracy from a corporation — NOS4A2
More than that, running a company is also work, and owners are workers. They accept more risk, acquire the means of production, the property, pay the overhead, build the clientele, and employ human beings. He runs it because it’s his project, his property, the fruits of his own labor. Without him there is no opportunity to participate in it. — NOS4A2
Anyone can start a company and run it as he chooses — NOS4A2
The question is, to those who lament the corporation and business men, why won’t you do that? fundamentally changing the system? — NOS4A2
Well, the fact that one guy is "principled", doesn't really show that a party, government, or state is not motivated by the desire to acquire or maintain power. — Apollodorus
Certainly as far as parties are concerned, politics seems to be about power regardless of political orientation. That's why they put so much effort and money into winning elections. — Apollodorus
It shows that a state can be principled. That one guy, if Prime Minister, picks the rest of the government, and institutions of a state. — Down The Rabbit Hole
If so, what then is the analogue of that in the realm of epistemic authority, standing next to religion the way capital stands next to the state?
The media, perhaps? Should they be a fourth option in the OP’s question? — Pfhorrest
Is Sky News one of the main news stations in Australia? — Down The Rabbit Hole
Once you've won power there's no point having that power unless you put your principles into practice, or use it for your own benefit, depending on your character. — Down The Rabbit Hole
but I’ve had too many jobs to believe in a concept like wage slavery, and I would never expect ownership of a company I did not create. That’s just me. — NOS4A2
There are millions of American slaves grinding for wages in your precious state machinery right now, all so people like you can beg them to pick up the slack wherever you refuse to. Where’s the foam at your mouth now? — NOS4A2
religions are epistemic authorities and states are deontic authorities, but what are corporations? — Pfhorrest
The media, perhaps? Should they be a fourth option in the OP’s question? — Pfhorrest
Corbyn was a decent guy, but not a fighter. Even if he pushed through, the issue then becomes one of enacting the policies. Reminds me of Bernie. Probably wouldn’t have been able to do much without the Congress, the appellate courts and Supreme Court, or the state legislatures — almost all of which are completely dominated by far right Republicans and moderate Republicans (Democrats). Not to mention the huge media attack on both sides. — Xtrix
By taxing my income, my property, they confiscate the fruits of my labor — NOS4A2
I’m well aware of the concept of wage slavery. — NOS4A2
Voluntarily working for a wage does not rise to the level of slavery, chattel or otherwise. — NOS4A2
I have never subscribed to the theory of exploitation — NOS4A2
There is no valid reason beyond pure greed that an employee should own the company he works for by virtue of him working there alone. — NOS4A2
The state, on the other hand, subsists entirely on exploitation in a way that is morally equivalent to forced labor: through taxation. — NOS4A2
By taxing my income, my property, they confiscate the fruits of my labor. As far as exploitive practices and greed is concerned, the robber baron pales in comparison to the state. — NOS4A2
I think that sounds a bit exaggerated. Yes, taxes do seem excessive but the state provides services in return. Without those services you would have to pay private companies to police your neighborhood, to collect refuse, to repair roads, etc., and I'm not sure that would come out much cheaper. — Apollodorus
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.