It's fairly handy to have someone seemingly earnestly trot out les memes du jour, especially since this is a mostly left-leaning forum. Becoming familiar with right-wing arguments, and deploying/refining them in legitimate rhetorical standoffs, is really the best way to develop persuasive power over those that accept them in the wild.

As sad as this might sound, Nos is pretty much representative of the bleeding edge of republican rhetoric. Whatever he deploys here is exactly the kind of thing that we are likely to see republican echo chambers reflect. He gets a chance to test and refine his shtick, and we get the chance to map and neutralize it (if only for ourselves). — VagabondSpectre

This fundamentally misunderstands NOS and far right-wingers in general!

Thereby ends the greatest presidency ever. I hope he gets some well deserved repose. History will do the rest of the work.

And now on to total Democrat rule. Let's keep this energy going—shall we move to the Joe Xiden thread?

Yeah, no, his only value is entertainment.

I was wrong for posting that article. I heard of it from the congressional floor. The search for information is a perilous one. I apologize.

I wouldn’t doubt it.

The police let them in, they got their photo-op of “democracy under attack”, killed a veteran, and dipped — NOS4A2

Literally the lowest possible hanging fruit. Not even hanging just sitting there rotting on the ground.

There is nothing admirable about storming the and breaking into government buildings. That said, the view in America seems to be that breaking property is part of any protest and a nice feature to validate how badly the victims feel.

The shooting does not make sense, I have seen the video. If it was right to shoot people breaking in, then all of them should have been shot, in the interest of fairness, why shoot one person? Is he shooter of sound mind, I mean would we trust him with nuclear weapons? I think not.

I have watched the Trump speech and I do not think Trump is responsible for the acts of some of his supporters any more than Biden is responsible for the acts of any of his supporters - not sure if Antifa and BLM are his supporters. For a Philosophy forum there are some hugely great leaps of reasoning made here. "March peacefully and Cheer" equals violence.

It is also funny that such reactions to violence and desecration of the seat of government is accompanied by four years of insults and denigration of the President of the country. Biden will not sink to the level of name calling because he knows that is just as unacceptable as rioting. If you want a different view of Trump, read Victor-Davis Hansons "The Case for Trump" where he makes the case that President Carter and President Ford were really nice people but not good presidents. Calling someone who can make billions and run a huge enterprise, not to mention the country (check Trump-meter for his achievements)and idiot does not serve anyone well including yourselves.

More to the point, calling the other side traitors is not the way. They are entitled to their point of view. The Republicans should take these people to court for calling them traitors, that should not go unpunished. I thought America was about tolerating other peoples views, not matter how crazy they sound. Maybe not. Maybe that America is gone. When I was shocked to hear that America tolerated Neo-Nazis marching through the streets I was told that that was a part of their right. This is America. Maybe not.

Trump has fought the results of the election in every legal way possible. It might be good to look at the actual court ruling and the dissenting opinions to know that there were some irregularities and the judges stated it. How much we do not know. As I predicted, he finally conceded when all options were explored, peacefully. He fulfilled the wishes of many of his Republican supporters, more than 80%. Should he have fulfilled the wishes of all Americans including Democrats? Sure.

His mistakes? Not ensuring testing kits were developed quickly enough, trusting the Chinese information on the Covid-19 flu, listening to Dr. Fauchi. Killing the Iranian General. But this list is not your list.

This is my take: President Biden was voted into office as 46th President of the United States. As far as we can tell, it was a free and fair election. He deserves the respect of that office, and the election system and process needs to be respected. This is democracy in action. Accept that the other party has to win sometimes. Work with it.

President Trump was voted into office as 45th President of the United States. As far as we can tell, it was a free and fair election. He deserves the respect of that office, and the election system and process needs to be respected. This is democracy in action. Accept that the other party has to win sometimes. Work with it.

If your system keeps producing people who you think are not fit for office, look at your system.

Calling the other side traitors is not the way. They are entitled to their point of view. The Republicans who voted in the Senate and House against certifying results are constantly denigrated.

They should take their accusers people to court for calling them traitors, that should not go unpunished.

Looking at the video you linked, the secret service agent clearly had his gun drawn and hanging out of the door for quite a while before he fired. We cannot see his mouth or hear properly through the noise, but it's likely that he was verbally warning them (But I mean, come on; if you break into a secure federal government compound and start climbing over barricades, you should know you're liable for getting shot, right?). — VagabondSpectre

Yeah, it's totally unambiguous. It's a tragedy she was so callously manipulated to get her to this point - and that the police outside slickened the sense of invincibility by allowing her and others to get so far inside with little pushback, as though nothing bad could happen, allowing the dream-like trance of the q-anon 'storm' narrative to carry them --so that even a secret service agent (i think?) with a gun, in the capitol, pointing it at you as you jump through a barricade, into the rotunda, doesn't seem like a danger- but there's a line. There is a point at which an adult - especially an adult over 30 - has to bear responsibility for going this far. It's a mess, and its sad.

How do we counter all this? — Xtrix

We need a freethinking system of public education, but that in turn requires that we have an enlightened discursive community to support it.

Literally the lowest possible hanging fruit. Not even hanging just sitting there rotting on the ground.

Fair enough. But remember, you fell for a Borat stunt.

Go rest your head Brett.

Fair enough. But remember, you fell for a Borat stunt. — NOS4A2

Yes, I mistook a video of Rudy Giuliana lying in bed to tuck his shirt into his pants for something more lewd, and you believed that an overt pro-Trump mob who overtook Congress yesterday was actually comprised of leftwing false operatives to make Trump supporters look bad.

Like you said, lowest hanging fruit.

I'm not sure what your motives or intentions are.

I suppose you could always ask. But thanks for the advice.

Maybe not murder though. — Brett

lol.

I don't believe you to be someone who posts in good faith, I wouldn't believe your answer. But I will leave you alone from here.

Editorial on the treachery of Josh Hawley from his local paper. Doesn’t pull any punches.

I don't believe you to be someone who posts in good faith, I wouldn't believe your answer. But I will leave you to it from here.

Likewise. But thanks for sparing me the hostility.

Like you said, lowest hanging fruit. — NOS4A2

Yeah if thinking that a guy who often hung out with infamous pedophile Jeffery Epstein was taking his pants off in front of a young woman is "low-hanging fruit" to you, I'll happily take it over believing that a covert leftwing operation disguised Antifa as rabid Trump supporters in order to overtake the capital building so as to make Trump and actual supporters look bad along with all the other absurdities that have filled the empty cup you have for a brain in the last 4 years.

This fundamentally misunderstands NOS and far right-wingers in general! — Maw

I think it understands and encompasses them perfectly.

But let's not so quickly forget that Trump was legitimately elected president by hordes of people who are typically persuaded along the exact moral and ideological/memological lines that Nos usually draws from (whether you believe Nos is a shill or a troll aside, the things he says are representative of right wing rhetoric). Disregarding all of them as deplorable and idiotic trolls is about as effective as telling people to pokémon-go-to-the-polls-because-I'm-a-woman. To repeat, ignoring Nos and others like him does not work: we tried that, it failed, and the Trump presidency was the result. The stronger our emotional rejection of Trump and his supporters, the deeper they can become entrenched in resentment that enables ad-hoc rationalization of whatever.

We are now in a world so saturated with information, noise, and attention seeking outrage that it is harder than ever before to reach any kind of nuanced consensus (we still all agree about bread and games). "Democracy" is therefore a harder thing to do, and we have no choice but to try it anyway. Depending on whether the younger generations develop the capacity to filter out digital bull-shit (thanks to being born and raised in it), or whether they just get segmented and tribalized into so many piles of idiots, the future of democracy is uncertain.

Thereby ends the greatest presidency ever. — NOS4A2

:lol:

Yeah, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln — Trump. An impeached, deranged failed businessman and reality TV star who cheats on his wife with porn stars, rapes women, lies as he breathes, and has the mentality of a 3 year old.

Really went out on a high note too.

Hey NOS: enjoy 4 years of Biden. :kiss:

Really no use feeding trolls. Just lowers the tone of the place.

Trump was popular with the masses. It's the rich that wanted him out. Hence the leftist-sounding mainstream media. The MSM are in the pocket of the rich.

The people LOVED Trump because he was one of their own. "Drink Lysol". They said to themselves, "I would have said the same thing," and voted for him. Trump lies? so do I. And they voted for him. He grabs poossys? Well, I wish I could, they said, and voted for him.

It took a real and concerted effort to turn the election around. It was done with cunning, with fraud, and with brute-force cheating. But it was worth it. I am glad to see him out of the office, even in jail, if he manages to live just two months into the future. But it is sad, almost tragic, that the American democratic process needed to take a big hit for this goal to be realized.

It took a real and concerted effort to turn the election around. It was done with cunning, with fraud, and with brute-force cheating — god must be atheist

Dude, you're dreaming. Despite a concerted effort by Pelosi et al to sabotage their own party, Trump's performance was just that bad. There's not really any good reason to believe that fraud or brute force cheating took place in the general election.

You notice the Trump recovery effort is already beginning. Media from the White House is now beginning to appear, 'condeming' the 'dreadful violence' and 'appealing for peace'. Trump has purportedly acknowledged for the first time he won't be serving a second term, which is the nearest he will ever get to a concession. DON'T BE FOOLED - this is desparate damage control from the bridge of a sinking ship. After yesterday's disgrace, Trump must be held to account, those vandals who stormed the Capitol Building - many of whom can easily be located via social media - tracked down and penalised, and his political enablers expelled from the Republican Party. And Trump should be removed from power immediately.

In America... facts are just a fantasy. Numbers are a mystery. Reason is a miracle. Logic is the devil himself.

Yes, it might have been just an accident. The police officer could have been attempting to head the fire extinguisher thinking it was a soccer ball. I'm going with presuming the most likely scenario. — Baden

Apparently on this OP we can use words as loosely as we like. The story of the fire extinguisher comes from a Twitter story, not the most reliable source for anything. Without evidence how can we say murder? Maybe it might have been but we don’t know that yet, unless there’s been an update from a reliable source. The “most likely scenario” is not how justice works, not yet anyway.

Technically, you're correct, of course, we can't say it was murder for sure until someone is convicted in a court of law. I don't see how that affects my point much. You can add the two live pipe bombs that were found at the scene if you need a bit more to drive it home.

Technically, you're correct, of course, we can't say it was murder for sure until someone is convicted in a court of law. — Baden

So why say it? Why use words like “coup” or “putsch”?

Edit: so the point is what?

What? I said it wasn't a coup.

Essentially a bunch of dumb fucking sheep getting their rocks off. Wouldn't know a coup if it bit them in the ass. — Baden

Edit: so the point is what? — Brett

Not going to repeat myself, @Brett. If you're not reading, let's leave it there.

I don’t understand the rush to use hyperbole and the pleasure people seem to get on this forum by using it. It doesn’t make things clearer. So why?