Christ on a bike.

insofar as it's possible — Baden

And your "strategy" is just to keep repeating like a broken record how shit everything is. As if we didn't know...

:point:

We're trying like hell. :mask: On the ground here in Atlanta, in the midst of the pandemic, the struggle to keep all potential Democratic-leaning voters mobilized & engaged goes on. Like so many of others, my neighbors and out-of-state comrades, I'm giving whatever I have left to that end; and though confident now, I'm not optimistic yet. — 180 Proof

:strong:

And I'm the nutjob? — StreetlightX

I think you know I don't think you're a nutjob. And it's not about what I think anyway, it's about what can and can't be done in a hostile political environment. My disagreement is not fundamentally with your principles but with your approach.

My disagreement is not fundamentally with your principles but with your approach. — Baden

This brought to my mind the imagined scenario of a social democrat saying this to Felix Dzerzhinsky during the Red Terror.

Idk man, before the election Biden's 'selling point' to the left who had no choice but to rationalise it for themselves after the fact was that he'd be a 'lesser evil' and that it'd be 'better to fight Biden than Trump'. Alright then, chop chop. Dude doesn't get a refractory period because of the collective-relief orgasm following Trump's loss.

I'm due an icepick, aren't I? :cry:

Felix Dzerzhinsky — jamalrob

I do like this being more creative with our murderous epithets. Everyone always makes Hitler and Stalin comparisons. Very rarely Dzerzhinsky! My go-to would be Beria, if if only because it's easier to spell (otherwise Robespierre would be up there too).

And of course no hard feelings! I just like, uh, expressive phrasing.

While I'm not sure of the extent of the change, especially during the pandemic, the support for Bernie were he in Biden's place, would and has shown to increase the more the public listens to him and his explanations of how the US got where it is. I'm not convinced that Trump would have beat Bernie. Doesn't matter though, he didn't beat Biden.

Reading this thread, I feel guilty for having voted for Biden. Indeed, for voting at all.

Hehe, I know.

don't worry, @StreetlightX voted for Morrison.

Don't be mean like that.

Doesn't seem to matter who you vote for, though. The very act of voting merely perpetuates corruption it seems. Maybe we need Platonic totalitarianism, or enlightened despotism.

I apologise. I meant putin (if you could).

the UK has parliamentary democracy and enlightened despotism.

But who's the despot?

Queen Elizabeth II. Although admittedly, parliament needs proportional representation.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. — Aristotle

Likewise, it is the mark of a radical democrat to be able to vote against an autocrat without uncritically accepting the shil-technocrat alternative. In other words, Biden is only another step ... but neither 'forward' nor 'backward' yet. So STFD, my trolling friends; stay frosty, comrades! :mask:

based on your taste in whiskey you might as well. :razz: — Benkei

We do actually call alcohol "piss" in Ireland. I'm fairly sure I can taste the difference though... :gasp: :wink:

Likewise, it is the mark of a radical democrat to be able to vote against an autocrat without uncritically accepting the shil-technocrat alternative. — 180 Proof

As Voltaire said of another loathsome thing--Ecrasez l'infame! (I don't know how to do the accents, sorry).

:up:

Americans are clamouring for change. The so-called centre doesn't do well - and is a recipe for Trumpism. The 'right' is occupied territory. That leaves one option, which at every turn shows up to be successful. Conclusion: I do not buy - and no one should buy - into the idea that progressive politics are a dead-end for the democratic party. In exact opposite holds true: not engaging in that policy direction is a royal road to more Trump. — StreetlightX

This I totally agree with. If after 4 years of Trump and a centre candidate being forwarded and almost nobody switched camps then moving further right is just going to alienate whatever base you have and you'll still be painted a leftist commy by those who you think you're courting.

I think the Dems need to move back to their roots representing working class people and deal with their problems and recognise class warfare is alive and well and show the GOP is selling them out at every turn they can.

I think the Dems need to move back to their roots representing working class people and deal with their problems and recognise class warfare is alive and well and show the GOP is selling them out at every turn they can. — Benkei

“Through the tax code, there has been class warfare waged [for the last twenty years], and my class has won. It’s been a rout.” ~Warren Buffett, 2011

I think the Dems need to move back to their roots representing working class people and deal with their problems and recognise class warfare is alive and well and show the GOP is selling them out at every turn they can. — Benkei

Yes, but... it's not that easy. First of all, it's a money game. Look behind the curtain and there's always a special interest pulling the levers. And those interests are diametrically opposed to the working class's by definition. So, how do you get a party that can survive and fund itself without relying on big money? Bernie got some of the way there with his grassroots movement, but ultimately failed. Secondly, even when you do have the money in your pocket, it's a culture war game. Sure the GOP is selling out the poor and the working class, but for those of this demographic that aren't already won over (largely non-college-educated whites) guns, religion, and "freedom" is in their blood and that's the easiest tune in the world for the GOP to keep whistling. A class-orientated ideological transfusion just isn't going to work when you have to drag the patient kicking and screaming to the operating table.

And your prescription, comrade doctor?

Kill all the boomers? Oh, sorry, that was Street's idea. :lol: I don't know is the honest answer. I need to understand the dynamics more. But I feel like it should be more like boiling the frog slowly than chasing it into the pond.

Someone needs to force retire Ghouliani and quick.

BuT BiDeN WiLl Be BeTtEr FoR CliMaTe ChAnGe :roll:

"Following a campaign promising bold climate action, president-elect Joe Biden’s transition team named one of the Democratic Party’s top recipients of fossil fuel industry money to a high-profile White House position focusing in part on climate issues.

During his ten years in Congress, Richmond has received roughly $341,000 from donors in the oil and gas industry — the fifth-highest total among House Democrats, according to previous reporting by Sludge. That includes corporate political action committee donations of $50,000 from Entergy, an electric and natural gas utility; $40,000 from ExxonMobil; and $10,000 apiece from oil companies Chevron, Phillips 66, and Valero Energy. Richmond has raked in that money while representing a congressional district that is home to seven of the ten most air-polluted census tracts in the country."

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/11/joe-biden-climate-fossil-fuel-industry-cedric-richmond

we've seen with Trump it's not just a money game. That's a hopeful fact actually.

As much as @StreetlightX striding around on the world's highest horse to berate everyone annoys me, I think he has a point here. You're correct when you say that the left has a problem with their tactics. But at the same time the current tactic, whole marginally more effective at getting into power, also cements the power of the right wing.

Over the last 20 years, there has been a resurgence of the extreme right wing all over Europe and the US. In many countries, new parties formed to the right of the traditional establishment. And instead of splitting the right wing vote and helping the left to sharpen their profile and win votes, as one might naively expect, the result has been the opposite. Far from the right being tainted by their association with regressive authoritarians, it's the center left, the social democrats, that have been eviscerated.

Consistently, economic considerations are pushed into the background by a culture war narrative on the far right. And instead of rejecting this entire framing and focusing on the actual factual challenges, many establishment left-wing parties have allowed themselves to be drawn into the swamp of identity politics and promptly lost. Because it cannot offer a vision anywhere near as rosy and consistent as the fake past peddled by the other side.

So I think it's true that there needs to be a new approach. Neoliberalism with some bells and whistles cannot compete with blood and soil rhetoric.