I’m not a republican.

Actually Haidt claims that we share the same moral intuitions and they’re merely packaged differently, such as liberal or libertarian.

If someone values X trait enormously while someone else values the same trait at essentially zero while the two might have the "same" moral value in actuality the two differ starkly on that value.

In any case would you really argue that, say, a Nazi and a communist share the same underlying values?

If someone values X trait enormously while someone else values the same trait at essentially zero while the two might have the "same" moral value in actuality the two differ starkly on that value. — BitconnectCarlos

Is that true or is it just a story we tell ourselves in order to navigate the social world. I value liberty a great deal, as well as loyalty, and I feel a sense of the sacred on occasion even though I claim to not be religious. Conversely, do you not value fairness? Do you not care about others? You give every indication that you do.

If Streetlight has a distaste for planting a fucking flag, in my opinion, it demonstrates a quality that the vast majority of us tragically lack.

he’s tucking in his pants after she removes the microphone from him. — NOS4A2

You would "tuck your shirt" in front of a 15-year-old girl? Pervert.

Right, all those alcohol-swigging, 15-year-old journalists. Only a pervert would pretend such a person was 15.

Is that true or is it just a story we tell ourselves in order to navigate the social world. I value liberty a great deal, as well as loyalty, and I feel a sense of the sacred on occasion even though I claim to not be religious. Conversely, do you not value fairness? Do you not care about others? You give every indication that you do. — praxis

Personally, my feelings towards loyalty are lukewarm and I care next to nothing about economic equality. I value harm reduction less than many other people that I know. There are very clear differences in fundamental values between those who strongly value liberty vs those who strongly value security.

His movies are hilariously perverted.

There are very clear differences in fundamental values between those who strongly value liberty vs those who strongly value security. — BitconnectCarlos

But the two go hand in hand. For instance, we outlawed child labor because it led to a kind of slavery. Education requires economic security for the student.

So everybody values both. The split is between social darwinists and those who believe we stand or fall together.

I was talking more about national security, but I definitely agree with you when you mention the split between social darwinists and those who believe we stand and fall together. I think that would be a fundamental difference in values.

my feelings towards loyalty are lukewarm — BitconnectCarlos

Betrayal isn't usually met with insouciance, even for Libertarians. And thanks for providing an opportunity to use the word insouciance, btw.

Same story with the rest of your alleged lack of feeling.

Well thanks for the new word.

The reason I'm lukewarm towards loyalty is because loyalty is always towards some cause or some group, but what of the group/cause? Or is it simply the bond or the pledge that is to be considered laudable? Are Hitler's bodyguards laudable for upholding an oath? If we only admire loyalty towards "good" causes that's not the same thing as just "loyalty."

hello- this argument applies to all virtues that have some social content, from compassion to honesty. when virtues are followed excessively they become vices- i think Aristotle or some other old greek fellow pointed this out

Ex-Hunter Biden associate's records don't show proof of Biden business relationship amid unanswered questions

Hunter Biden's former business partner Tony Bobulinski claimed this week that former Vice President Joe Biden had been involved in discussions about his son's business dealings, something the Democratic presidential nominee has repeatedly denied.

Fox News has reviewed emails from Bobulinski related to the venture — and they don't show that the elder Biden had business dealings with SinoHawk Holdings, or took any payments from them or the Chinese.

...

Bobulinski provided text messages and emails related to his venture to The Wall Street Journal, mainly from the spring and summer of 2017, which don't show Hunter or James Biden discussing Joe Biden's purported role.

Sources familiar with the matter told the Journal that Hunter and Jim Biden's joint venture never got funds from CEFC China Energy Co. ‒ of which Bobulinski was a partner ‒ and corporate records reviewed by the newspaper indicate Joe Biden had no role in the discussions.

...

However, according to separate emails obtained by Fox News, Bobulinski states there are no other members besides Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, Rob Walker, James Gillar and Anthony Bobulinski, regarding the shareholding structure, and records for all stages of company negotiations show no role for Joe Biden.

...

According to the Post's reporting and Bobulinski, the proposed equity split referenced "20" for "H" and "10 held by H for the big guy?" with no further details.

"In that email, there is no question that 'H' stands for Hunter, 'big guy' for his father, Joe Biden, and Jim for Jim Biden," Bobulinski claimed Thursday in a statement he gave ahead of the second presidential debate, where he was President Trump's guest.

"In fact, Hunter often referred to his father as the big guy or 'my chairman.' On numerous occasions, it was made clear to me that Joe Biden's involvement was not to be mentioned in writing but only face-to-face. In fact, I was advised by [James] Gillier and [Rob] Walker that Hunter and Jim Biden were paranoid about keeping Joe Biden's involvement secret."

According to separate emails obtained and analyzed by Fox News, the "chairman" appears to refer to China.

Trump knocks idea of a 'female socialist president'

“We’re not going to be a socialist nation. We’re not going to have a socialist president, especially a female socialist president,” Trump said. “We’re not going to have it. We’re not going to put up with it.”

Totally not sexist...

Female socialism is ten times worse than the regular kind.

Not sure whether to cringe more at the sexism or the idea that Kamala is a socialist.

"In a competitive workforce, when men go from striving to be the best versions of themselves they can be to being the worst and sabotaging his fellow man to get ahead, even at expense to the organization, and calling this normal, you know something has gone wrong."

And I'm not even for that kind of change. Simply, one would be foolish to think a man-made system is without its flaws and inherent dangers or shortcomings. No problem is without a solution. Question is, will we find it?

It turns out the hippies were right, there is a cure for conservatism.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-if-a-pill-can-change-your-politics-or-religious-beliefs/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

Ergo, Nixon’s war on drugs and declaring Timmy the most dangerous man in America.

I cast my ballot today, and y'all will all be relieved that as to the presidential race, I voted for nobody, which I do believe will be better than either of the candidates.

I voted for nobody ... — Hanover

Aka "whomever wins".

Fucker, I thought you were voting Nelson. :rage:

But well done though, I may have to suspend my feelings of enmity for a few days. ... Looking for a new enemy :eyes:

I guess my presidential vote will count more than yours after all. :party:

I cast my ballot today, and y'all will all be relieved that as to the presidential race, I voted for nobody, which I do believe will be better than either of the candidates. — Hanover

Then you're a fool - and not merely rhetorically. The worse, much worse, for being presumably neither ignorant nor stupid nor a child. You the picket sleeping on the line because you were sleepy. Failure of responsibility, failure of duty, failure of common sense. Intellectual and cognitive bankruptcy. Well f-ing done.

And at the accounting, when you go up to the front of the line and want credit for doing nothing, both sides will tear you to pieces.

I'll leave you yanks slug it out amongst yourselves. Wake me up on arMAGAddon day. :fire: :naughty:

Failure of responsibility, failure of duty, failure of common sense. Intellectual and cognitive bankruptcy. Well f-ing done. — tim wood

I simply told the waiter I wanted neither the chicken shit sandwich nor the dog shit sandwich. I chose not to dine. Some burn cities, some carry signs, some dump tea. I leave entries blank on ballots. Patriotism comes in many flavors.

And that would be fair enough, if neither was an option! And you cannot find a difference between the two?

You consider yourself equally well off with either, and neither better than the other? With discernment like that, no owl is ever going to fly for you!

Some burn cities, some carry signs, some dump tea. — Hanover

Indeed some do, and for better or worse. And usually to have some effect. But you did nothing - what is that going to achieve?.