attended the same wedding a Saturday ago. 120 attending, multiple states and only 2 people were wearing masks with no physical distancing. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

WHYYYYYYY????????

WHYYYYYYY???????? — Maw

Calculated risk to be blunt honest. I attended the ceremony and left without hugs from anyone. I left and the others at the ranch stayed for the reception of drinking, buffet food and fuck all.....

:mask:

WHYYYYYYY????????
— Maw

Calculated risk to be blun[tly] honest. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

:roll: Russian roulette? spinning the chamber every 10-15 minutes ...

It's easier to stay indoors in CO, especially NoCo, on account of the wildfires making the atmosphere polluted with smoke.

marriages are still important right? Why on earth the couple invited 120 people is the question, I think, not the person going when invited, who may expect some sanity from the couple.

First ask yourselves, how much investment and focus is put into vaccine research generally? Compare that with what is now happening with Covid-19. You think those billions now poured into various vaccine programs by major countries won't have an effect? — ssu

Yes, absolutely I think that (or at least not the scale of effect relied on). Developing a vaccine involves a very great number of resources and those resources are spread sufficiently thinly such that it takes a considerable amount of time to complete all the stages. Not all of those resources can simply be bought by throwing money at them. How is money going to increase the number of trained staff? How is money going to increase the supply of minority condition groups to test against? How is money going to speed up the long-term monitoring period?

It's lunacy to invest this amount of money in a medicine which might not even work when there's absolutely proven interventions which we know will save tens of thousands of lives not only now but in the next one, and the next one...

Btw: if person A is COVID 19 positive, how long is their incubation period? How long after person A tests positive is person B at risk if person A doesn't know when they contacted it? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I think from contact to symptoms is around 5-7 days. In the hospital we stop treating infected people as if they're contagious after 21 days (though I think the real number is around 14 days).

We were all uncomfortable when we started doung that, but it's been fine.

It's lunacy to invest this amount of money in a medicine which might not even work when there's absolutely proven interventions which we know will save tens of thousands of lives not only now but in the next one, and the next one... — Isaac

I wouldn't call it lunacy especially as the investment does also go into treatment, not only in a vaccine.

The HIV pandemic that has killed roughly 32 million, killed at it's height in 2005-2006 nearly two million people annually. Now with treatment and spread of information the deaths have been reduced by some 50% and in many African countries the majority of HIV patients are receiving antiretroviral therapy. To put the investment into scope, between 2000 and 2016 about half trillion dollars was spent in HIV research globally, btw.

Europe looks bad compared to other continents:

Its making me wonder if another mutation has taken hold. I'm sure somebody's checking.

It's not about the simple act of spending money on a problem, it's about where the money's spent.

We know for a fact that general health improves outcomes yet barely a penny goes into schools sports, sports grounds are sold off for housing, social active schemes can barely scrape by and corporations are allowed to push sugar and fat drenched foods on children, force workers to sit for eight hours a day with impunity...

We know for a fact that good healthcare including capacity improves outcomes, yet healthcare services have been stripped to the bone and the scraps sold to the highest bidder.

What's the difference between the solutions above and the pharmaceutical route? The flow of money. Government to people in the first two cases, government to corporations in the latter.

You don't have to be a genius to work out why the corporations favour the latter. What is much more baffling is why a majority of left-wing commentators are so willing to work so hard to popularise the corporations' favourite solution for them.

@Baden Does it bother you that people aren't as afraid of this as you are?

Like saying to someone who wears a seatbelt that they're a scaredy cat as if being a retard who doesn't wear one is something to be proud of. No, I'm not afraid any more than looking before I cross the street makes me afraid. Now please crawl back into your hole of stupidity.

@Baden Oh, is that so? Do you offer similar tirades to people who do not look before they cross the street?

The only one you are fooling is yourself.

I wear pants for the same reason. — unenlightened

Covid aside, I do think laws requiring clothes are puritanical and unjustified, and I’ve sometimes imagined that a great protest against victimless crimes and general tyranny would be to just sit around naked on the steps of a prominent government building doing nothing but existing.

What? God, just go away.

And please, please do not look before you cross the street next time. :up:

+This goes for anyone else who hasn't progressed beyond a mental age of 15 and thinks it's cool to do stupid shit because "mUh fReeDoM!". Keep doing it. You'll get your Darwin award eventually.

If you have such a hard time dealing with other people's views maybe you're the one who should leave.

That's your problem. Not mine.

:sweat:

And please, please do not look before you cross the street next time. :up:

+This goes for anyone else who hasn't progressed beyond a mental age of 15 and thinks it's cool to do stupid shit because "mUh fReeDoM!". Keep doing it. You'll get your Darwin award eventually. — Baden

I guess instead you'd like everyone to make mature comments such as this one.

You need a long look in the mirror my friend.

You need a long look in the mirror my friend. — Tzeentch

And if you have any trouble figuring out where you should start looking, start here:

When you are confronted with a view you do not agree with, you wish for that person to get hit by a car.

When I am confronted with a view I do not agree with, I wish for them to reflect.

Now reflect upon that, and tell me which one of us hasn't progressed beyond the mental age of 15.

When you are confronted with a view you do not agree with, you wish for that person to get hit by a car. — Tzeentch

First of all :lol:

Secondly, when I'm confronted with someone who at the outset of the pandemic claimed that it was nothing to worry about and who after over a million deaths and untold suffering has not only shown no sign of remorse but not even an ounce of recognition concerning how horribly wrong they were and instead doubles down on the same species of inanities they began with as if this was something to be proud of, I treat them with the absolute contempt and derision they deserve. And I will continue to do so, unapologetically. When it comes to regular human beings who I just happen to disagree with, I'm happy to offer mutual respect.

That's it then? The way you rationalize your hatred for views you do not agree with is some vague notion that I didn't care enough?

Remorse? Remorse for what? The millions of deaths and untold suffering that I am somehow responsible for in your head?

Please.

You're just trying to convince yourself that I must be a horrible person so you don't have to think about what I have to say.

It's not about the simple act of spending money on a problem, it's about where the money's spent. — Isaac

Again here notice that it isn't just one or two governments doing this, this is a global effort. And in that global effort there might be also players that are indeed effective, even if many are inefficient.

If you talk about US health care, that's obviously stupendously ineffective and costly when it comes to the money actually spent and results that are dismal, but this isn't just an US effort. The argument of " healthcare services have been stripped to the bone and the scraps sold to the highest bidder" might hold true in one national example, but to argue that ALL NATIONS have gone this route is false.

The virus seemed to be spreading unimpeded across parts of the UK for a while until about a week ago. With a few cities and counties having up to 1,000 confirmed cases per 100,000 of the population. It was doubling about every 2 weeks. Now the chaotic government has introduced some localised lockdowns, it is doubling about every 4 weeks in the worst places. Already the numbers are to high for test and trace to be effective. Scotland and Wales now have full national lockdowns, but England is not going down that route as there are a number of politicians in the governing party who insist that there should be no lockdowns and that the people should just use their common sense and live with it. This is exerting pressure on the government causing more dither. We are like a boat without a rudder at the moment.

I can't speak to the reasons why the spread of the virus has increased in other countries, but I can say something about Austria.

Austria was one of the first counties to place a lockdown into effect. We had a great deal of mild panic in the beginning, but it really settled down after a few days. Home office became the norm. Home schooling became an ordeal, but for the most part Austria was well prepared with decent internet connections and all teachers being able to do online classes.

Once the masks were proven to be somewhat effective, Austria took little time to put measures into effect to make masks norms without endless debate. Sure it was strange and to a degree inconvenient, but hey it helped a lot.

We used network theory to help find potential hot spots and clusters before they formed. The models were extremely helpful and yes... were a major player in the fight against this virus.

We did home office and got that up and running as well as it could run very quickly. We set up social programs to have partial employment of those in sectors that were very much exposed to the virus as to keep people employed with most of the incomes and keep business afloat without too many going belly up.

We did home schooling and yes parent for a brief moment came to value the profession of teachers. Thankfully Austria has a very good internet service and for those who were in a disadvantage they rather quickly found aid to help their kids still learn.

Sure some folks complained about not getting haircuts or being able to go to the fitness center, but for the vast majority such measures were viewed as absolutely necessary. Austria became, for a short while, a model of success in the battle.

OK... the number of cases were worked down fairly quickly from a 7 day moving average of about 740 new cases in late March to a moving average of between 25 to 35 new cases from the end of May to the end of June.

Today we had over 3,500 new cases and now a moving 7 day average of new cases over well over 2000. (and to think during all of May and June we had only 2,300 new cases in total)

So, what happened?

More or less the people became very comfortable with the virus . They also became impatient with the governing authorities and wanted life as usual. As we began to slowly reopen the people put pressure upon the political authorities to quicken the removal of restrictions much faster than the medical community recommended. Once a restriction was loosened the people took to it like American shoppers on Black Friday. If the restrictions stated a social gather of 50 people was the maximum there was no social gathering happening under 70 people. Basically the pushed every loosing of the restrictions to the very limit of the law and beyond.

The watershed moment came when the people placed extreme pressure upon the government that summer vacations outside Austria for Austrians and of course having tourism return for a few weeks in summer was SO NECESSARY to keep themselves sane and of course to recover a small bit of the losses in the economy.

So for the final month of the season Austria reopened. Now there were restrictions and guidelines, but hey... it's a vacation... which meant a vacation from the guidelines as well.

Prior to the vacation is a must the cases were beginning to go on the rise once more, but it 'seemed' a slow and 'manageable' increase from the perspective of the people demanding a vacation and the political heads remembering that they are exactly that political heads... they needed the people's support to keep their jobs.

Of course the medical professions were stating over and over this is going to be really bad, but no one cared to listen. The populist talking heads constantly mentioned how there are so many beds free in our super equipped hospitals for patients and as long as that's the case why constrict anyone's freedom. (once I heard this BS I kind of felt the virus quietly say "Yummie!")

As if someone set off a light switch the numbers exactly 2 weeks after the vacation season was over exploded like never before, but the people grew found of the reacquired social mobility and the 'liberty of the individual' was touted as the real important issue in debates. In the case of Austria mostly by the liberal parties, especially the Greens. (this ain't America)

So... after nearly 3 months of lockdown and nearly beating this damned virus, the NEED for a vacation for 4 weeks has caused us to be in worse shape than ever thought. Well... more than ever thought by the people, as the folks in the medical professions kept saying 'this is a very bad idea... a very bad idea indeed'.

So now we are on the verge of another lockdown, but they can't call it that, but that's what it's gonna be. At the moment the government turned back into a political theater with wishy washy restrictions that seem to change on a daily basis. They set up a 'Corona Stop Light'... after weeks of debate and anticipation, well... on the first day it was presented if was already redundant. That's what happens when the science is no longer done by scientists, but by political science appointees. It's a total mess.

Personally I hope the people of Austria remember how nice those 4 weeks of vacation were when they realize that the entire Ski vacation season in Austria (the entire industry of Ski Vacations!!!) will be more or less a total bust. Basically 4 weeks of vacation will likely kill off 5 months of a ski season... the single biggest money maker in the tourist sector and the 3rd most important sector of the Austrian economy.

I just hope the 'selfies' were nice, as they'll have all winter to admire them while they find themselves unemployed.

I'm sure the vacation didn't help, but I think it's possible that the virus was quietly spreading through the summer. Mild cases can go undetected. I guess what I'm saying is that it's possible this surge was going to happen one way or another. Maybe it's just worse due to the vacation?

We are like a boat without a rudder at the moment. — Punshhh

Hey, at least you have a real chief executive. We've got dick.

If you want a fuckbuddy, try Tinder. I care as little about your existence as you do about the million that died from the disease you continue to downplay. Deal with it and piss off.

:clap: :100:

Apparently, 'human nature' is a COVID-19 risk-factor. "Two-thousand-two-zero party over / Oops out of time / So this winter we're gonna party like 19-1-9" :mask:

If you want a fuckbuddy, try Tinder. I care as little about your existence as you do about the million that died from the disease you continue to downplay. Deal with it and piss off. — Baden

Who's looking for a fuckbuddy?