I’ve explained my views on Stone before. I think the investigation and prosecution were political and unjust. — NOS4A2

The prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Stone was guilty of witness tampering, obstructing an official proceeding, and five counts of making false statements. He's a criminal and ought be in prison.

His sentence (which was less than the guidelines recommended) being commuted is political and unjust.

Wasting your breath buddy.

Robert Mueller: Roger Stone remains a convicted felon, and rightly so

The work of the special counsel’s office — its report, indictments, guilty pleas and convictions — should speak for itself. But I feel compelled to respond both to broad claims that our investigation was illegitimate and our motives were improper, and to specific claims that Roger Stone was a victim of our office. The Russia investigation was of paramount importance. Stone was prosecuted and convicted because he committed federal crimes. He remains a convicted felon, and rightly so.

Russia’s actions were a threat to America’s democracy. It was critical that they be investigated and understood. By late 2016, the FBI had evidence that the Russians had signaled to a Trump campaign adviser that they could assist the campaign through the anonymous release of information damaging to the Democratic candidate. And the FBI knew that the Russians had done just that: Beginning in July 2016, WikiLeaks released emails stolen by Russian military intelligence officers from the Clinton campaign. Other online personas using false names — fronts for Russian military intelligence — also released Clinton campaign emails.

Following FBI Director James B. Comey’s termination in May 2017, the acting attorney general named me as special counsel and directed the special counsel’s office to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. The order specified lines of investigation for us to pursue, including any links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign. One of our cases involved Stone, an official on the campaign until mid-2015 and a supporter of the campaign throughout 2016. Stone became a central figure in our investigation for two key reasons: He communicated in 2016 with individuals known to us to be Russian intelligence officers, and he claimed advance knowledge of WikiLeaks’ release of emails stolen by those Russian intelligence officers.

We now have a detailed picture of Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election. The special counsel’s office identified two principal operations directed at our election: hacking and dumping Clinton campaign emails, and an online social media campaign to disparage the Democratic candidate. We also identified numerous links between the Russian government and Trump campaign personnel — Stone among them. We did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired with the Russian government in its activities. The investigation did, however, establish that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome. It also established that the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.

Uncovering and tracing Russian outreach and interference activities was a complex task. The investigation to understand these activities took two years and substantial effort. Based on our work, eight individuals pleaded guilty or were convicted at trial, and more than two dozen Russian individuals and entities, including senior Russian intelligence officers, were charged with federal crimes.

Congress also investigated and sought information from Stone. A jury later determined he lied repeatedly to members of Congress. He lied about the identity of his intermediary to WikiLeaks. He lied about the existence of written communications with his intermediary. He lied by denying he had communicated with the Trump campaign about the timing of WikiLeaks’ releases. He in fact updated senior campaign officials repeatedly about WikiLeaks. And he tampered with a witness, imploring him to stonewall Congress.

The jury ultimately convicted Stone of obstruction of a congressional investigation, five counts of making false statements to Congress and tampering with a witness. Because his sentence has been commuted, he will not go to prison. But his conviction stands.

Russian efforts to interfere in our political system, and the essential question of whether those efforts involved the Trump campaign, required investigation. In that investigation, it was critical for us (and, before us, the FBI) to obtain full and accurate information. Likewise, it was critical for Congress to obtain accurate information from its witnesses. When a subject lies to investigators, it strikes at the core of the government’s efforts to find the truth and hold wrongdoers accountable. It may ultimately impede those efforts.

We made every decision in Stone’s case, as in all our cases, based solely on the facts and the law and in accordance with the rule of law. The women and men who conducted these investigations and prosecutions acted with the highest integrity. Claims to the contrary are false.

The prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Stone was guilty of witness tampering, obstructing an official proceeding, and five counts of making false statements. He's a criminal and ought be in prison.

His sentence (which was less than the guidelines recommended) being commuted is political and unjust.

He’s still guilty and still a felon the last time I checked. Crossfire Hurricane and the Mueller probe were a farce. They spied on a political campaign and ruined the lives of people who should not have been investigated, Stone included.

Just what you quoted there tells what an awesome spymaster Vladimir Putin really is.

Forget the Cambridge Five, forget the top spies of WW2 like Richard Sorge. Vlad really is the all time great. It will be very interesting how the American history depicts this time few decades from now. It's going to be interesting reading.

He’s still guilty and still a felon the last time I checked. Crossfire Hurricane and the Mueller probe were a farce. They spied on a political campaign and ruined the lives of people who should not have been investigated, Stone included. — NOS4A2

You're spouting the Trump line about the Mueller investigation being a farce. Even if there were problems with the FISA applications, the investigation was conducted in a legal manner - with legally obtained subpoenas that obligated Stone to tell the truth. He didn't. Why?

Love the film, but I don't find that it expresses or advocates any real political theme. — Maw

I meant the main character's political philosophy, not the film's.

Crossfire Hurricane and the Mueller probe were a farce. — NOS4A2

"And you would be better employed picking out of your teeth the bits of mare's ass your were eating. Your mother saw you at it, and was amazed at such disgusting behaviour."

You're spouting the Trump line about the Mueller investigation being a farce. Even if there were problems with the FISA applications, the investigation was conducted in a legal manner - with legally obtained subpoenas that obligated Stone to tell the truth. He didn't. Why?

You’re spouting the Pelosi line that the Mueller investigation was a legit investigation. The Steele dossier was payed for by the Clinton campaign and sourced from Russian intelligence, leading to unwarranted spying, investigations and a misinformed western populace, all for the purpose of winning an election—Russian collusion. Any indictments?

Stone was raided by a SWAT team with CNN in tow, and for what?

It's clear that you know nothing. So what are you about? Is it possible your relationships are all about rage, and that since you cannot sustain one in real life you incite to rage on line? Did your parents abuse you, and for you rage is love? Well, like many people I have some spare rage lying around. You're welcome to it, and it will be all yours because you're a liar and a troll. And that's all you are.

I love it when you foam at the mouth, Tim. But it’s a shame your insults are as about as good as your arguments.

You’re spouting the Pelosi line that the Mueller investigation was a legit investigation. The Steele dossier was payed for by the Clinton campaign and sourced from Russian intelligence, leading to unwarranted spying, investigations and a misinformed western populace, all for the purpose of winning an election—Russian collusion. Any indictments?

Stone was raided by a SWAT team with CNN in tow, and for what — NOS4A2

You're jumping to conclusions about my motivation. I'm focusing on the fact that Stone committed crimes and was convicted. Any possible problem with the initiation of the investigation is irrelevant. Stone committed perjury and witness intimidation. A jury found him guilty. We're supposed to have rule of law. My "why" was intended to solicit an answer that would somehow relate to why he deserved preferential treatment. What makes it OK to commit these crimes? Can everyone expect the same treatment?

Because he was treated unjustly and wasn’t given a fair trial.

Because he was treated unjustly and wasn’t given a fair trial. — NOS4A2

Why is it unjust to charge him with perjury, when he lied under oath?

He was raided by an FBI Swat team in the middle of the night with CNN in tow. He was gagged at his trial. His judge and jury forewoman were anti-Trumpers. All because he lied to congress during a farce of an investigation. Note: James Clapper and John Brennan both lies to Congress, but of course they were too busy spying on Americans to receive any punishment.

Setting aside your partisan viewpoint on the events, every innocent person who has ever been arrested has been treated unfairly. That does not give them the right to lie under oath. In fact, lying under oath will always look suspicious, so it's a bad idea.

The Steele dossier was payed for by the Clinton campaign — NOS4A2

I don't understand why that matters. The Clinton campaign paid Fusion GPS to find real dirt on Trump, not to write a fiction.

leading to unwarranted spying, investigations and a misinformed western populace

The Steele dossier wasn't the basis for the FBI investigation or for the Mueller investigation. The FBI investigation started after they were informed by an Australian diplomat about George Papadopoulos' self-claimed knowledge of Russian intelligence being in possession of emails stolen from the Clinton campaign. The Mueller investigation started after Trump fired Comey.

all for the purpose of winning an election

The Mueller investigation, which started after the election by Trump's appointed Deputy Attorney General had the purpose of winning an election? The FBI investigation, which wasn't made public until after the election, had the purpose of winning an election?

Stone was raided by a SWAT team with CNN in tow, and for what?

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/01/690305364/fact-check-did-the-fbi-use-unusual-force-when-it-arrested-roger-stone

Michael German, a former FBI special agent and now a fellow with the Brennan Center for Justice, said Stone's comparisons to the other raids were "ridiculous" and that armed arrests of this nature seem to have become standard over the past 20 years.

"It's become much more commonplace to use either SWAT teams or tactically trained agents to do arrests across the board," German said.

Authorities must take many factors into consideration before they take someone into custody, he said. "They have the responsibility to not only protect their agents, but the public at large and even the person they are arresting. Often the way to do that is with overwhelming force that would tend to dissuade any resistance."

A number of other legal experts and former law enforcement officials also have responded over the past week, to say Stone's arrest was not out of the ordinary — especially in a case in which prosecutors say they feared Stone might have tried to flee or destroy evidence.

"Was the FBI's show of force too heavy-handed, as has been alleged? Absolutely not," wrote James Gagliano, a former FBI agent, in a column for the Washington Examiner.

"In the FBI, we tend to defuse situations by removing the fight-or-flight inclination, via our overwhelming presence. To arrest one, we bring 10. For 10, we'll bring 100," he also explained.

Apart from the question about whether the procedures in Stone's arrest were uncommon, German said the question it has raised is a sound one: Has law enforcement in the United States become overmilitarized?

"While it might be perfectly justifiable in this case based on what little we know, I would want to see Congress looking at this as a systemic issue," German told NPR.

He also said Stone may have himself contributed to the way the FBI planned his arrest by his bombastic remarks, which have included posing with weapons and "training" at a firing range in case of a "civil war."

"Part of the problem is, if you act crazy in public, you take the risk of people believing it," German said. "If you're saying things about resisting the government, then the government has to imagine that you might do that."

Also, FYI, Stone was arrested after Trump became President, by an FBI led by a Trump appointee.

You frame these things as if it's the entire government machinery out to get Trump, as if Trump isn't the one ultimately in charge of everything. I can't be bothered to read back on previous posts, but have you at any point held Obama responsible for the FBI under his administration? Would be hypocritical not to do the same for Trump.

Setting aside your partisan viewpoint on the events, every innocent person who has ever been arrested has been treated unfairly. That does not give them the right to lie under oath. In fact, lying under oath will always look suspicious, so it's a bad idea.

I think submitting someone to unjust investigation and treatment, and then convicting them because they weren’t 100% correct during that investigation, warrants leniency, especially for a 70 year old first-time offender. Others are getting let out of jail while he was being thrown in. It would have been certain death for him. I wager you aren’t that callous in real life.

Horowitz report was quite explicit:

“We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team’s receipt of Steele’s election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order.”

The start of Crossfire Hurricane was equally as flimsy, and had they not had the Steele report, they would not have spied on Americans.

The Mueller investigation, which started after the election by Trump's appointed Deputy Attorney General had the purpose of winning an election? The FBI investigation, which wasn't made public until after the election, had the purpose of winning an election?

No. If Russians wanted to use active measures in order to destabilize American institutions or democracy, to disparage a political candidate, to meddle in elections, they have done so through the Steele dossier.

You frame these things as if it's the entire government machinery out to get Trump, as if Trump isn't the one ultimately in charge of everything. I can't be bothered to read back on previous posts, but have you at any point held Obama responsible for the FBI under his administration? Would be hypocritical not to do the same for Trump.

Not that I recall. I am unaware of any evidence that Obama is involved in any of this.

Come on...not ”100% correct“? He lied under oath, which is a crime. Relativists point stands, his conviction for his crime was just and your position that it wasn't just is incorrect.
Is it just hard to admit it sometimes because of the constant mud and dishonesty you have to wade through on here?

Come on...not ”100% correct“? He lied under oath, which is a crime. Relativists point stands, his conviction for his crime was just and your position that it wasn't just is incorrect.
Is it just hard to admit it sometimes because of the constant mud and dishonesty you have to wade through on here?

I said his treatment was unjust, not his conviction. His conviction has not changed.

I'd love for you to fact check this article:
Roger Stone's Commutation is Even More Corrupt Than It Seems

It looks pretty solid to me, but my judgment may be impaired by bias. Help me be more objective by identifying the falsehoods in the story.

I see nothing wrong with the article save for the implication that speaking to Assange and Wikileaks and having interest in the emails (knowledge of which was already public) was somehow a bad thing. It’s not.

Stone maintains that he wasn’t prosecuted because he was covering for the president, but because he refused to lie about the president.

Horowitz report was quite explicit:

“We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team’s receipt of Steele’s election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order.” — NOS4A2

I wasn't talking about Page's FISA order, as that's not what you were talking about. We were talking about the Mueller investigation, and so I assume by extension Crossfire Hurricane which opened on July 31, 2016.

The start of Crossfire Hurricane was equally as flimsy, and had they not had the Steele report, they would not have spied on Americans.

It wasn't flimsy. One of Trump's foreign policy advisors had advance knowledge of the stolen emails. They were also informed by British and other European intelligence agencies about contacts between Trump's campaign and Russian intelligence.

As for Stone, nothing in this search warrant has anything to do with the Steele dossier.

I wasn't talking about Page's FISA order, as that's not what you were talking about. We were talking about the Mueller investigation, and so I assume by extension Crossfire Hurricane, which opened on July 31, 2016.

I stated, “The Steele dossier was payed for by the Clinton campaign and sourced from Russian intelligence, leading to unwarranted spying, investigations and a misinformed western populace, all for the purpose of winning an election—Russian collusion.”

It wasn't flimsy. One of Trump's foreign policy advisors had advance knowledge of the stolen emails. They were also informed by British and other European intelligence agencies about contacts between Trump's campaign and Russian intelligence.

As for Stone, nothing in this search warrant has anything to do with the Steele dossier.

The man who has been investigating the matter for the last year begs to differ. “Our investigation has included developing information from other persons and entities, both in the U.S. and outside of the U.S. Based on the evidence collected to date, and while our investigation is ongoing, last month we advised the Inspector General that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the FBI case was opened”.

We’ll see exactly what that means in due course, I’m sure.

I stated, “The Steele dossier was payed for by the Clinton campaign and sourced from Russian intelligence, leading to unwarranted spying, investigations and a misinformed western populace, all for the purpose of winning an election—Russian collusion.” — NOS4A2

And as I pointed out, it wasn't the Steele dossier that lead to the investigation, as the investigation started before the FBI knew about it.

It may be that the Steele dossier was the deciding factor in Page's FISA application, but there's far more to the investigation that just that.

Besides the point, you put spin on that. He lied, thats much different than not being 100% correct. I thought better of you than that, thats all.

What evidence do you have that he intentionally misled Congress? Perhaps I missed it and wouldn’t mind hearing it.

@Michael @DingoJones @Relativist

It might be worth pointing out that discussing Stone's conviction and some vague notion of "fair treatment" is playing the propaganda game @NOS4A2 wants to play.

For the judgement of Trumps action, all that is irrelevant. All that matters is that he commuted a sentence in a case he has a personal interest in. Even Stone himself admits as much when he claims he "refused to tell lies about Trump". That's what makes the corruption. Even if Stone's conviction had been some striking miscarriage of justice, it'd still be wrong and corrupt for Trump to commute that sentence.

All else is misdirection in the interest of propaganda.