Could be. What's your view?

There is no medicare for all... even now...

He did refuse to open the exchanges.

and he said, f**k it, they can have it for free, i.e. Medicare for all. — Baden

Did Trump actually say that, in substance? (And where, if you have it?)

I know he refused to open the exchanges. That's what I was saying. Instead, the uninsured can go to the hospital, get treated for COVID for free and the hospital will be reimbursed at Medicare rates as they would be in a Medicare for all situation. Are we on the same page? I'm being somewhat Devil's advocate here, but it's a case of Trump outflanking establishment Democrats to the left and if they keep letting him do that, he'll win easily in November.



"The Trump administration will use a federal stimulus package to pay hospitals that treat uninsured people with the new coronavirus as long as they agree not to bill the patients or issue unexpected charges.

This means that the uninsured will have lower costs than anyone, including those on Medicare or private insurance. That’s very progressive, and apparently it will cost only about $4 billion out of the $100 billion earmarked for hospitals.

This proposal is great because it sets a standard reimbursement rate for treating COVID-19 and it makes things easy on patients.
...
So what if—and hear me out on this—we just did that for every illness? For everyone. And not just at hospitals, but everywhere. We could call it, I don’t know, universal health care or something like that. Who’s with me?"

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/04/trump-administration-adopts-mini-universal-health-care-for-covid-19/

Thank you. Interesting. We'll see how it goes.

I know he refused to open the exchanges. That's what I was saying. Instead, the uninsured can go to the hospital, get treated for COVID for free and the hospital will be reimbursed at Medicare rates as they would be in a Medicare for all situation. Are we on the same page? I'm being somewhat Devil's advocate here, but it's a case of Trump outflanking establishment Democrats to the left and if they keep letting him do that, he'll win easily in November. — Baden

That's precisely the sort of characterization that is misleading in the sense of it diverts the focus away from socialism saving the day and changes it to who gets credit for making sure the uninsured aren't financially harmed by Covid 19. The same may happen when it comes to all the other socialist measures that have been and will continue to be put into place in order minimize the inevitable harm to Americans.

No one will state the case as it is...

Socialist measures save the day.

Are we on the same page? I'm being somewhat Devil's advocate here... — Baden

I think we are, but I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time, nor the last.

:wink:

Bernie is out.

Let's see how Bernie is going to persuade his followers to vote Biden.



For more years of Trump?

The Democratic incompetence on display. If you can't win from Trump after this corona fiasco you need to disband.

They won't disband.

The fact that Biden is worried about the cost of universal health care means he won't do anything else than try to build on the bloated Obamacare, if it even comes to that. Other universal health care systems around the World are far cheaper than the US system. Biden likely won't do anything about things that make people worried like this:

100 years from now nobody will care.

My new motto.

Too bad you're not living a 100 years from now for that motto to work in your favour.

I think you need to watch this video:

Watched it and missing the point apparently! :lol: :chin:

Nice short though. Thanks.

Reminds me of a time in 2017 when Trump met with some congress people about gun control and the Democrats present asked if he might possibly consider endorsing some legislation that could create a process by which courts could rule as a term of sentencing for certain crimes that those convicted were not permitted to possess certain firearms, and Trump suggested instead taking all the guns away from everyone first and then figuring out who deserves to get them back afterwards, at which point all the other Republicans present freaked out.

Trump has no consistent principles at all and basically only does what he thinks will make people like him, so sometimes he proposes some obviously good ideas that many people would clearly like, without regard for how they fit into his party’s ideology, only to later be reigned in by his handlers. That also means he supports plenty of bad ideas that are not so obviously bad to enough people who like him; if demonizing some Other plays well to a crowd, which it often does, he’s happy to roll with that too. But during the election he promised universal health care in at least one interview. I have little doubt that if the right people in the right positions had the right relationships with Trump, he could easily be talked into supporting what learned people would call a far-left platform across the board, and he would think it was his own brilliant idea that everyone else was too stupid to think of.

Watched it and missing the point apparently! :lol: :chin:

Nice short though. Thanks. — Benkei

Like life, it was pointless and short, but still beautiful.

I have little doubt that if the right people in the right positions had the right relationships with Trump, he could easily be talked into supporting what learned people would call a far-left platform across the board, and he would think it was his own brilliant idea that everyone else was too stupid to think of. — Pfhorrest

Yeah, many people think that they can be the Trump-handlers who succeed in getting their agenda through Trump. Perfect example was Steve Bannon. Or Rupert Murdoch (owner of Fox).

They think that Trump is an idiot and that they could control him. Trump might be a great communicator and an idiot, but the thing is that he's uncontrollable. If people just hint to Trump that he's on a leash by this or that, Trump will have a tantrum. You see, other politicians see it as a game of trading favours, trying to get a consensus, keep your side winning. Trump doesn't see it like that. I think he takes these things personally and lacks the focus to understand complex issues.

So if you Pfhorrest think that it's a matter of only the right people with the right agenda (no pun intended with right here) getting the short focus of Trump, that isn't an answer. You see, Trump won't implement anything a push it through as his leadership qualities are nonexistent. In the end he'll just ramble and say incoherent things and nothing would go anywhere. Just think about it. He had (and still has) a firm grip of his party. His party had BOTH HOUSES of the Congress. And Trump could pass... a tax cut.

So don't think Trump will do anything. Actually, the smart Trump voters vote Trump exactly for that reason. For them it's good that the POTUS isn't an equivalent of a Ceasar. Also he makes the media take it's role seriously and do their job and not be the lapdog of the DNC as they would be otherwise.

My point wasn’t so much that Trump can be manipulated into taking initiative about anything, and you’re absolutely right that he would throw a fit if he caught a whiff of that happening. My point is just that Trump occasionally supporting left-wing ideas isn’t that surprising because he has no ideology or principles at all, so in a different context where he had thought running as a Democrat stood better chances and the Democrats surrounding him were all far left and the far left rhetoric played well with crowds at rallies, the same Trump could have easily gone along with that and been the most left-wing president ever. Not because he’s a good little socialist at heart or anything, but because he isn’t really anything at heart.

So, who are you guys and gals gonna vote for?

Biden or Trump?

I think I need to evacuate myself. Excuse me.

addendum:

*MAGA 2020*

M_ake

A_ssmonkey

G_o

A_way

*VOTE* (AGAINST pandemic & depression ... 'treason' (re: Ukraine, etc), corruption (re: Kremlin-Oligarchs, Deutschebank, Emoluments, etc), voter & census suppression, racism misogyny & xenophobia (opportunistic scapegoating), anti-science (e.g. 'climate change' DENIAL), "deep state conspiracy" propaganda, die Lügenpresse ("enemy of the people"), hyper-partisanship, dictator/gangster-envy, BULLSHITTING (H. Frankfurt), presidency-reduced-to-"reality tv") :scream: :monkey: :shade:

5 Worst U.S. Presiden(cies) - 2 or more of the following: mal-administration (i.e. conspicuous incompetence), corruption [ ... ]

1. tRUMP (aka "Individual-1" "Putin's Bitch" "Agent Orange" "M.oscow A.sset G.overning A.merica" "SCROTUS" ...)
2. [ ... ] — 180 Proof

Well, those are all very compelling reasons. I think I threw my ballot away on accident, so I'll have to go get a new one. Unfortunately, the odds are pretty good he'll be re-elected.

Unfortunately, the odds are pretty good he'll be re-elected. — Wolfman

HRC isn't the Dems' nominee this year. Besides, "pretty good odds" compared to other incumbents facing reelection (i.e. referendums on their first (& only) terms) during mild to severe economic downturns such as Hoover in 1932? Ford in 1976? Carter in 1980? Bush in 1992? - I don't see it, Wolfman. What am I missing?

To be sure, this race will be closer than most of those. But one thing I've learned is to never underestimate the power of lots and lots of stupid people.

No but levity aside, I’m a professional sports bettor; and while there’s a great number of variables I have to analyze prior to making a wager, one of the most difficult to quantify, and assign a percentage value, is the “X factor.” I think Trump has one and Biden doesn’t. Trump will be able to enthuse and galvanize his constituency in such a way that Biden will not be able to. Here in the SF Bay Area I’m well-insulated from right-wing politics, and I get the sense that most of us will vote for Biden because he’s the guy not named Trump. I think this will hurt Biden at some point during the election, though I cannot say when.

In February bookies had Trump as a clear favorite to win. Now both candidates are hovering around +110 odds. More fluctuations will occur, but I doubt Trump will drift much lower than this in the foreseeable future. I’ve been trying to place a large wager on Trump, but I can’t seem to find a book willing to take that much action (not for now anyway). The way I look at it is if I lose, then at least Trump isn’t in office. And if I win, at least I have some sort of consolation prize.

In any case, I suspect the 2020 election will look somewhat similar to the 2000 election, though perhaps not as close. I do hope I am wrong.

IT'S HERE ! ! !

The thing I myself and predicted a month ago has happened.

And likely Bernie will do what he did in 2016: give support to Joe as he did the last time with Hillary.

The Good Loser. Same repeat now with Joe coming soon. — ssu

Of course, the physical circumstances were now a bit different, which we didn't anticipate:


So Bernie supporters, excited to vote for Joe now? Don't think how current Bernie's program is at the present, just let that hate of Trump flow and vote Joe and listen to Joe.

Biden's first response: "Well uh, Bernie, I want to thank you, uh, umm..for that, it's it's a big deal, um, and uh, you know, I think that, uh, your endorsement means a great deal, it means a great deal to me, I think that people are going to be surprised that we are apart on some issues but we're offly close on a bunch of others and uh, I think you've made if, if I am the nominee which looks like now you just made me, umm, I uh, I'm going to need you, not just to win the campaign but to govern.

Unfortunately the CNN clip stops there, but I think the above tells a bit about the present Biden. Oh yes sure, he's going to use Bernie. Because their offly close on a bunch of things.

ANY. BODY. BUT. tRump. :mask:

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/15/1937573/-Republicans-Endorse-Biden

Biden-Klobuchar 2020 ...?

Hegelian-Lacanian Stalinist as political handicapper of neoliberal American electoral schizo-politics! :clap: :rofl:

I was just about to say that :nerd:

Thanks for that! I miss Slavoj; going to conjure-up some of his latest, pandemic-related "talks" on youtube. :wink:

Biden-Klobuchar 2020 ...? — 180 Proof

Tammy Baldwin would be better