I'll give you a concrete example. My sister and her husband are looking at probably three months of lockdown or semi-lockdown and no work. They live in LA. Their rent is 3 grand, close to a grand for health, and another 2 for bills and food. Let's say 6 grand a month. How long do you think 1200 bucks each is going to last?

In contrast, a treasure trove of $500 billion has been opened for big corporations to dig into.

The bill is shit. — Baden

What part of "you're missing the point" don't you understand?

I haven't argued that it's a great bill.

A "no" vote would have been in keeping with everything he says he stands for. A "yes" vote looks like capitulation. — Baden

We're in a pandemic. I don't think he cares about the optics right now. A "no" vote would have accomplished exactly nothing. If this truly turns you off to Bernie, by all means keep holding your breath for someone more principled.

The bill is indeed total carp.

The bill is indeed total carp. — Artemis

:clap:

What part of "you're missing the point" don't you understand? — Xtrix

Put your attitude back in your pants. You don't own the point here.

I don't think he cares about the optics right now — Xtrix

Yes, he obviously does, because he voted for the bill. There was no other reason to vote for it.

If this truly turns you off to Bernie, by all means keep holding your breath for someone more principled. — Xtrix

It's not about me.

What part of "you're missing the point" don't you understand?
— Xtrix

Put your attitude back in your pants. You don't own the point here. — Baden

Fuck you. That better? :)

You're right, Bernie's a total sellout. I'm bored talking with you.

OK, relax. I didn't intend to upset you. I still like Bernie, but in this case he did the wrong thing.

"Tucked into the largest bailout in United States history — a $2 trillion federal stimulus package agreed to by congressional leaders and the White House early Wednesday in an effort to reduce the economic devastation of the coronavirus outbreak — are a range of provisions that stand to benefit specific industries and interest groups.

...it turns out that the provision might not preclude funds from going to companies owned by the family of Mr. Trump’s son-in-law and White House adviser, Jared Kushner, while Mr. Trump’s companies would not be barred from benefiting from other elements of the bill intended to help broad swaths of American business."

"The provision says that if a company owns multiple hotels, even if the overall hotel or restaurant chain has more than 500 employees — the limit to qualify for treatment as a small business — it will still be able to take advantage of the small-business benefits offered in the rescue package.

That means loans from the federal government worth up to 2.5 times the firm’s monthly payroll that will not have to be repaid...

Representatives from the American Hotel & Lodging Association reached out to Republicans and Democrats to push them to insert the language"

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/us/politics/virus-fineprint-stimulus-bill.html

Again, I would urge people to look past the headlines and look into the fine print of the bill. Though we're going off-topic now, so I'll leave it at that.

Two things about Bernie here: first, to use an idiom that has been floating around for a while, Bernie has always been a compromise choice for the left. He's who you go for because he's an apple that's not entirely spoilt, despite the basket being mush. Second point, related to the first, is that Bernie's vote for this bill is consistent, to a degree, with his voting record. He was on board with Obama's equally shitty bailout in '08 (in fact, this bill is worse), and of course, he voted for ACA despite it being a compromised bill by his own standards.

In this light his acquiescence with respect to the current bill is disappointing but not unexpected. Lesson: politicians won't save you, they're a means to an end, and a limited one at that, even as one should absolutely choose strategic moments to support them.

:clap:

Bernie bowed out of the race today...

Congratulations everyone! Four more years of Trump!

We may not be getting the candidate we wanted, but we are getting the candidate we deserve!

Are Americans really this stupid?

Something tells me that moneyed interests being afraid of Bernie had their hands in this...

P.S. Elizabeth Warren should go back to the republican party as their fucking season MVP....

P.P.S: Vote for the other Biden...

Drink the Kool-Aid, DNC!

Are Americans really this stupid? — VagabondSpectre

I've never understood how people can be so confident that their opinions are true, that it implies all contrary opinions are the product of stupidity.

Such arrogance.

Look me over, if you like what you see help out, if not, vote for the other Biden.

I think the system is crashing...

RIP Bernie...

Are Americans really this stupid? — VagabondSpectre

Yes.

Not entirely their fault. They live in a failed state.

Are Americans really this stupid? — VagabondSpectre

Just lazy. Millennials didn't get their shit together and actually vote in enough numbers to make a difference.

"US stock markets jumped on Wednesday on hopeful signs that the coronavirus outbreak in the United States was close to a peak, with health insurers getting an additional lift from Bernie Sanders' decision to suspend his presidential campaign."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0408/1129449-us-markets-buoyed-by-coronavirus-hopes/

Re: Vote Rich but Live Poor We the Sheeple

Are Americans really this stupid?
— VagabondSpectre

Yes.

Not entirely their fault. They live in a failed state. — StreetlightX

You're way ... too ... kind ... :zip:

Words simply can't describe how dumb this country is, we're beyond parody

OK, relax. I didn't intend to upset you. I still like Bernie, but in this case he did the wrong thing. — Baden

Harsh words towards one who is so overwhelmingly on the right side of history. He was not for the bank bailout in '08 by the way. You repeated that commonly held false belief earlier. I'm trying to disabuse you of it.

He was not for the bank bailout in '08 by the way. You repeated that commonly held false belief earlier — creativesoul

Quote me.

That means loans from the federal government worth up to 2.5 times the firm’s monthly payroll that will not have to be repaid... — Baden

Curious. That doesn't sound like a loan to me.

Words simply can't describe how dumb this country is, we're beyond parody — Maw

A Tragicomedy?

Well, you do start to be like Mexico.

Well, you do start to be like Mexico. — ssu

Mexico at least cares about religion. Here in the US, they only exist to evade taxes.

He was on board with Obama's equally shitty bailout in '08... — StreetlightX

Quote me. — Baden

My bad. It was Street... not you.

Sanders had multiple conversations with Obama ahead of decision to end campaign.

The Kool-Aid is fruity.

No worries.

:smile:

"Stupid, lazy millennials" (and not just millennials).

It's difficult to say exactly what happened with Bernie. On the one hand, the DNC consolidated their power in a hail-Mary attempt that ended up succeeding to beat Sanders back, and never supported him from the beginning. Nor did most of the media pundits and op-ed contributors. If they had supported him, rather than playing up "socialism" and convincing voters that he had "no chance" of beating Trump (which wasn't supported by polling), who knows what would have happened.

On the other hand, the voters didn't show up in the numbers we needed. He also didn't win over the African American vote. Remember that although Elizebeth Warren was in the race, even if you counted all of her voters Bernie still only had a plurality in many states.

It's worth keeping in mind, when trying to understand what the hell is happening here, that propaganda and misinformation are everywhere, that many Americans get poor or little education, that most are living paycheck to paycheck regardless of their "class" status, that real wages have stagnated and thus they are deeper in debt than ever before, and that the neoliberal-dominant legal and economic system in which they have grown up has many built-in measures (some accidental, most deliberate) that encourages and magnifies social isolation and division (through media-fueled fear and suspicion of others, "wedge" issues, etc), constant diversion and perpetual work. These phenomena have all been studied systematically, but the evidence for this is everywhere, just look around.

So this is all as much "true" as saying that they're stupid and lazy, which may also be true.