Again untrue I simply asked her. Carrying someone’s groceries does not entail me violating any “rule”. But I’m sure you would need a government to tell you that.

On cue, Ireland has been put on full lockdown because people kept doing stupid things. Which sucks as I can't go more than 2km from home now. But whatever, needs to be done. I called for a full lockdown two weeks ago. The sooner you do it, the shorter it is.



Regardless of government advice, I would just use my common sense and not put a vulnerable person at risk.

I can respect that. And you're right, the irresponsible are indeed partly to blame for the conditions we find ourselves within. I was pleasantly surprised that western governments at least tried the educational approach. I could tell it was tough choice for them. But many people hardly even tried. In the states they are throwing "Corona parties", believe it or not. Maybe the draconian measures will help drill it in their thick, self-concerned skulls.

:up:

Carrying someone’s groceries does not entail me violating any “rule”. — NOS4A2

It entails getting within transmittable range of a vulnerable person, in your case, unless you two coordinated otherwise. It also entails direct contact with things that she will be in direct contact with, unless you were equipped with protective gear.

What would you have done had she accepted your irresponsible offer?

I like your positive attitude, Tiff. Never forget that moral collective compass and that lot more, or otherwise all those guns you have will make a truly toxic cocktail. — ssu

Guns are not going to solve anything in this scenario.

I think we are seeing the best of humanity come together to live another day, all of us. Our world was in need of a crisis because the unexpected consequences are bringing us together and that is huge.

There is little bickering between nation's and more cooperation and that my friend is something to take stock in. We are being tested, We as inhabitants of this Earth and we will beat this as best we can. :strong:

How many people are you willing to support sacrificing? — praxis

I feel like you are trolling me. :down:
Iggy :flower:

Our world was in need of a crisis because the unexpected consequences are bringing us together and that is huge. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Climate change, mass extinctions, pollution... Oh, sorry, I got hysterical there for a moment.

It entails getting within transmittable range of a vulnerable person, in your case, unless you two coordinated otherwise. It also entails direct contact with things that she will be in direct contact with, unless you were equipped with protective gear.

What would you have done had she accepted your irresponsible offer?

My kind offer? I would have done what any delivery person would do: carry her bags to her door and be on my merry way. Does that mean I’m going to spread my germs? No.

What would you do? Avoid her?

What would you do? Avoid her? — NOS4A2

Avoid, unless I had a high degree of confidence that I wasn't a carrier (I don't currently), or if I wore a mask and gloves that I had a high degree of confidence were uncontaminated. We are talking about someone who is old and feeble, right?

What would you do? Avoid her? — NOS4A2

Ask from across the street before approaching, "Would you like help with your groceries?". If yes, "Are you sure? It seems you're in an at risk group for this bloody virus thing.", "Oh I know, have you been following the guidelines?" "I've been isolating, working from home, I washed my hands before coming out, and I've not been to see anyone non-necessary in person for about 10 days." "Ok then"

What is more likely to happen:

"No thank you"

My county just went to a total lock down. The only person allowed to travel is my son's girlfriend who comes and goes, but other than that, no contact with others.

I was responding to this not criticizing you. — Baden

My bad. Stupid of me.

That’s the key to the successes of places like Japan, South Korea and Singapore. They remember the SARS outbreak and took it seriously. They never forgot. — NOS4A2

I agree.

And for example when the 2003 SARS outbreak didn't hit us (US & Europe) so much, we likely patted us on the back on a job well done and how good our system was. China was then humiliated and had a political urge to do something about it. Just look at the stats:

Deaths to SARS outbreak by country 1 Nov 2002 - 11th July 2003:

Australia: 0 (cases 5)
China: 646 (cases 7083)
Singapore: 32 (cases 206)
Italy: 0 (cases 4)
Spain: 0 (cases 1)
Germany: 0 (cases 10)
USA: 0 (cases 75)

So I guess the positive side of this pandemic is that we'll take prevention of pandemics seriously next time. This is obvious as all the Western countries that have been hubs for tourists and business have been severely hit.

Much more practical, though you run the risk of the elderly person not fully grasping the gravity of the situation, in which case things could quickly get awkward.

"Would you like help with your groceries?"

"What, dear?"

"I said, would you like help with your groceries?"

"I'm sorry, you'll have to speak louder."

"WOULD YOU LIKE HELP."

"No thank you, my doctor said to stay away from kelp."

"Uh, okay... HAVE A NICE DAY"

My county just went to a total lock down. — Hanover

Wellcome to the club, Hanover.

On cue, Ireland has been put on full lockdown because people kept doing stupid things. — Baden

And nationalized the health care sector for the time of the pandemic, which will make many here really happy and interested.

PRIVATE HOSPITALS WILL act as part of the public health system for the duration of the coronavirus pandemic, the government has announced.

Some 2,000 beds, nine laboratories and thousands of staff have been drafted into the public system, Leo Varadkar said at a press conference today. Speaking at the same press conference, Health Minister Simon Harris said “there can be no room for public versus private” when responding to the Covid-19 crisis.

“We must of course have equality of treatment, patients with this virus will be treated for free, and they’ll be treated as part of a single, national hospital service.

"We must of course have equality of treatment, patients with this virus will be treated for free, and they’ll be treated as part of a single, national hospital service"

:clap: :clap:

The first, and most vulnerable, member of my extended family circle has been diagnosed - an in-law, aged 99, lives in residential care in NY. So far, she's not faring too badly, but you can't help but expect the worst (although she's assuring everyone that she's perfectly reconciled to the prospect of imminent death.)

It's still a bit unreal in my immediate neighborhood. Many weekend cyclists gather around our local shops before setting off on their various cycle routes, and they were still hobnobbing this morning, all standing a bit too close to each other for comfort in my opinion (although I didn't say anything).

The local greengrocer now has crosses on the floor where customers are supposed to stand for service, and their staff are wearing face-masks and disposable gloves. Virtually every shop window has COVID-19 notices taped to it. As of now, we're not in lockdown, but we're being told constantly on radio and television not to go out unless necessary. In my case, not difficult as I live in a large house with a recreation reserve adjoining; many others are not so fortunate.

April is going to be brutal; worried about New York, in particular.

Here's a good newsclip comparing the response in Taiwan and in Italy. Again the underlying reason of the difference is what Taiwan implemented after SARS outbreak in 2003. And what Italy didn't do.



The above clip made me think of the one major f*k up that my country's officials have done.

Yes, they closed schools, libraries, swimming halls and went to lock down even before the first death happened. They closed restaurants, closed the borders (including with Sweden) and they have put the Capitol region to quarantine with police and the army creating checkpoints. What they didn't anticipate is that when the general shelter-in and closing of Europe happened, about 200 000 Finns (out of 5,5 million) returned to Finland including many retirees coming from Spain. A strict quarantine? No, at first there weren't even clear instructions at the main airports and still there's no enforcement of the two week quarantine. Nothing like in China or Taiwan etc. At least the Prime Minister said she was sorry this error happened.

Oops.

If you're waiting for perfect information you'll always be late. We knew it developed exponentially in the beginning, we've seen what it does in Wuhan and Italy. Nothing that requires a model. There was more than enough information available to go into lock down much earlier in the States than what happened.

Also, the corona parties happened in Germany, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands that I know of. There too it was painfully obvious that people take personal responsibility only so far as it directly concerns them. In light of that, the measures aren't draconian but simply necessary in a society where most are trained to be selfish gits.

Wtf? I wake up to #Brazilcannotstop. Criminal.

Wtf? I wake up to #Brazilcannotstop. Criminal.

Good thing, they were about to flatten the Brazilian rainforest and do maximum exploitation.

If you're waiting for perfect information you'll always be late — Benkei

That's the point: the 'demand' for perfect information is nothing but an excuse to inaction, a setting of an impossible bar in order to better mystify and distract. It's also a terrifying demand by the very standard of those who might call for it - 'perfect information' is the kind of thing best gleaned by - yep - more institutional intrusion into everyday life. No surprise given that NOS is a state bootlicker and lover of all things government.

Sorry to hear about Brazil's situation. Whoever stabbed Bolsonaro in the stomach way back when should have used a bigger, more serrated knife.

That's the point: the 'demand' for perfect information is nothing but an excuse to inaction, a setting of an impossible bar in order to better mystify and distract. It's also a terrifying demand by the very standard of those who might call for it - 'perfect information' is the kind of thing best gleaned by - yep - more institutional intrusion into everyday life. No surprise given that NOS is a state bootlicker and lover of all things government.

No one demands perfect information. I just don’t want important decisions to be made on information that is off by orders of magnitude and based on unreliable data and assumptions. But I suppose that is the sort of thing you’re used to given your fake, bad faith interpretation of my argument. You wanted authoritarianism and you got it. Enjoy.



I’m sorry to hear about your grandmother contracting the virus, friend. I suspect we’ll all have it soon enough.

Despite a global pandemic, the UN security council cannot even agree on a joint statement. That body is now, once again, completely dysfunctional. I wonder if, even during the cold war, a situation like this would have been as overtly politicised.

I’m sorry to hear about your grandmother contracting the virus, friend. I suspect we’ll all have it soon enough. — NOS4A2

I wonder how much effort it takes to suppress your conscience so much that you can offer personal condolences while at the same time spreading propaganda designed to ensure the virus spreads further.

Thank you. :pray:

No one demands perfect information. I just don’t want important decisions to be made on information that is off by orders of magnitude and based on unreliable data and assumptions. But I suppose that is the sort of thing you’re used to given your fake, bad faith interpretation of my argument. You wanted authoritarianism and you got it. Enjoy. — NOS4A2

Again a strawman. Nobody is making important decisions on the models but on the information that is available. Exponential growth, limited healthcare capacity. The corona parties underscore the importance that isolation is enforced. You call it authoritarianism, we call it public health management the rules for which are temporary.

Then there is the glaring inconsistency here :

I suspect we’ll all have it soon enough. — NOS4A2

Without a model or knowledge you conclude everyone is going to have it, which is far more than any model had projected. Well done.

What are the global projections? (Number infected)

I just don’t want important decisions to be made on information that is off by orders of magnitude and based on unreliable data and assumptions. But I suppose that is the sort of thing you’re used to given your fake, bad faith interpretation of my argument. You wanted authoritarianism and you got it. Enjoy. — NOS4A2

Agreed. All the more reason why the fact that nearly everyone was caught with our pants down on this needed more and more stringent measures to be taken faster than we could have predicted. So far, the only people to have been exposed as utterly unreliable and totally useless are those who have continually downplayed the effects of the virus. Put them all in a bin, including yourself.

I will most certainly enjoy the fact that we aren't having 600+ deaths a day as Italy has been having all week. 'Authoritarianism' is a fantasy boogyman here dangled by idiots like you for other idiots to suck on, so the old, sick and poor can get fucked harder than they already are.

After the economic destruction do you think this event will stop people looking for quick, easy money or help oil the chainsaws and invite the miners in.

The economic plight from this could wreck and ruin far more than people seem to appreciate.