Well, it's irrelevant whether or not you agree with it. I'm merely pointing out why you think it doesn't mesh with reality.

At the time, labor was hard to get, unemployment high, specialization and white-collar jobs low. Etc. etc.

Note: I’m going off on one because I’ve come across a number of people espousing Marx as some heroic figure and then saying that if I work for one hour a day I should get paid the same as everyone else for working one hour a day - irrespective of skill, knowledge and/or experience.

I can now see where such daft ideas may have sprouted from.

Of course I understand it was a different time. Clearly Capitalism has helped many people get out of poverty, but it is still shocking to see the lack of focus on human beings. He does certainly highlight problems within the Capitalist model too, I’m not trying to detract from that as I’m more bothered with what is missing.

From what little I’ve read he seems to have noted a significant point yet not bothered to emphasis its importance yet ... I imagine that will come soon enough, but I’m just curious why he didn’t bother to point to it explicitly when he noted it?

I don’t think you quite understand what I’m trying to point out here. The whole picture being painted is one that disregards human life as part of economy. He clearly is happy to depart from basic human interactions and lay out ‘economics’ as purely being a monetary exchange scheme rather than possessing human ‘wants and needs’ (he says ‘wants and needs’ then parcels it off as ‘use value’). This progresses into ‘use value’ only being of any ‘value’ - in the marketplace - if there is an exchange based on ‘goods’. If you cook a meal for your family this is essentially framed as of no ‘Value’. Do you see how this can be construed as dehumanising? — I like sushi

Is this referring to the work of Marx? If so, it's a really bad misreading.

I still feel as though, his ideas aren't irrelevant. Although disenfranchisement, workers alienation, doesn't apply in as great an extent as it did in those days, I think commodity fetishism has increased substantially. Surplus value, has increased significantly, (Apple phones, computers?).

There's a lot that can be said about the world through Marxist economics, I think still.

I can see where it’s going. The point was to state that the ‘useless’ work is what happens due to production lines - where he expresses the ‘product’ as a having latent ‘use value’ that is only turned into a ‘commodity’ after the production - thus disassociating the ‘worker’ from the exchange.

Agreed. I think the key to a turn around lies elsewhere though.

The point was to state that the ‘useless’ work is what happens due to production lines - where he expresses the ‘product’ as a having latent ‘use value’ that is only turned into a ‘commodity’ after the production - thus disassociating the ‘worker’ from the exchange. — I like sushi

Yeah, if you want to take this line of reasoning to the extreme, the ultimate wet dream of capitalists according to Marx is absolute commodity fetishism, where alienation and the human element is completely eliminated from the picture. Think, about saturations in productivity increases, or a point where humans can't even compete with the scary and pernicious machine. Artificial Intelligence stealing white-collar jobs, and all that.

It might sound outlandish, but, Marx was right in that regard.

There are some really foreshadowing movies about this made in the 1920's:

I this is completely wrong though as I’ve started to try and explicate elsewhere. Plus, I’d say the Marxist dream ends up pretty much in the same place - the use of robotic labour is just as likely to free up human ‘labour’ for more personal and productive means as it is to inhibit and demote human ‘value’ - as per his own rigid definition of ‘value’ with a superficial regard toward skill, experience, aesthetics and ‘production’ as equivalent to ‘leisure time’ and basic human interactions.

I still think Orwell hit the nail on the head - ‘Slavery is Freedom, Freedom is Slavery’. It comes down to our scope of play and how we deal with personal limitations head on rather than denouncing them. Humility, being human, is the aim I guess.

We’re just human beings trying to be more than human beings. That appears to be what makes us different from every other species - we actively ‘dislike’ our position, both a strength and a horrid burden (depends on your given perspective any give moments in time I guess).

Sometimes I feel ‘godlike’ and other times I feel ‘redundant’. Either way I’m aware both are necessary perspectives for living even if they’re indicative of delusional traps.