I was saying that you are more than you think, or are conditioned to think. That there is a kind of enquiry through contemplation of self, as well as philosophical enquiry, or scientific enquiry.

Is that ok? — Punshhh

If you must.

I would say I can also be less than what I think.

Let's settle with "most likely I am different from what I think I am", although in exceptionally rare cases, a person can be precisely what or who he thinks he is.

Frank Zappa wrote a song about this, titled "What kind of girl do you think we are?" He was in an all-male band.

‘God’ cannot be shown or known, so ‘God’ is but wished for and hoped for, which is called ‘faith’, in short. — PoeticUniverse

That's the premise.

Perhaps before we descend too far into the logical complexity, we might consider the simplistic premise. Can God be known? Of course. Are wishing and hoping the substance of faith? Of course not.

The premise, along with each of the subordinate points, was formed within a context of not knowing God, was it not? In the absence of a valid premise, where does the logic lead?

Can God be known? Of course. — Old Brian

But we don't know god. From our point of view now, God is not known. He is in hiding. We don't know what he is like, what he wants, what he wants of us. All these are matters of faith.

Can god be known? Yes, but only if he exists. And we have no clue if he exists or not.

Let's settle with "most likely I am different from what I think I am", although in exceptionally rare cases, a person can be precisely what or who he thinks he is.

I agree, but what I was talking about when I began to contribute to this thread was something else entirely. No disrespect to yourself or the other posters, but I have to point that logic, thinking in a reasoned way, cannot answer the questions about God/s, it cannot even address the issue other than in the form of a commentary, or social/cultural analysis of things that other people have reasoned. Don't get me wrong I am aware of the value of logic in the human world*, but this thread is not asking about the human world, but about god/s.

Likewise with science, in a sense, science is blind, it only provides information about what it has discovered and any other knowledge derived from science is human reasoning again.

So all this logic and reasoning is irrelevant in the question addressed in th OP, or if otherwise, the OP is mistaken in making that suggestion.

In reality the only way this question can be addressed is through a science of self, of which there is a large body of work.

I can elaborate if anyone would like, but you can't just dismiss these realities.

*by "world" I am referring to the conscious world of humanity, in which the thinking of people resides.

But we don't know god. From our point of view now, God is not known. He is in hiding. We don't know what he is like, what he wants, what he wants of us. All these are matters of faith.

Can god be known? Yes, but only if he exists. And we have no clue if he exists or not.

I would agree with this, although I don't think you can say we don't know God, that is a presumption. Also, any rational analysis cannot include faith as evidence in itself.

Nowhere Man

Time future, time present, and time past
Are all at once, with not a bit of it to last.
The glorious light flashes us into being shone,
As the light ‘eternal’ of all time to be known.

We are the beings of the everlasting light dream,
As products time and time again, by its means,
Of the eternal return, as baubles blown and burst,
Though draughts of time that quench life’s thirst.

We butterflies, on the edge of forever’s flight,
Spread fast our wings on the ocean of light
That is of the ageless photonic opposing waves
In no time, mass, or space that is thereby made.

4 billion years of expansion has stretched the original information over the 2D surface of a thin membrane — Gnomon

Nobody’s Theory of No Absolutes

(The first line of each stanza is the title)

Absolute Totality vs. Relative Totality
None isn’t ‘outside’ nor can be in here,
Nor can Finite One be, with None outside;
Thus, there is no absolute One or None,
Which forces a relative ‘in-between’.

‘One’ as an Absolute Totality Fails Even More
Thus, we can’t step into what isn’t there,
Nor can a One expand into a None,
Nor can there be spacers of None
Within the arena of a One.

Relativism
Absolute time, space, particles, and motion
Are impossible, which forces relativeness—
Of fractional/fractal relations of
Near endless variations of quanta.

The Oddness of Light Photons
Light is ‘null’ to time—not a part of it,
Nor is light of space—it makes space-time ‘lit’.
On a light beam there’s no extent or time!
Light seems to have neither reason nor rhyme.

Already There
Light’s full speed in a true vacuum
Of no time and no space is as ‘infinite’,
For it is already everywhere;
In other words: everywhere in no time.

Light/Matter
Light photons colliding make for
Electrons and positrons, and vice-versa,
With the forward-time of photons being
Canceled by the backward-time gravitons.

Forth and Back and Forth
Photons are made of something and its anti,
Releasing them as electrons and positrons,
In collisions, regaining them in their union
Upon annihilations, this zero-point stretched.

The Zero-Point Extended Broadcast
This point of creation-annihilation
Is extended into a faux reality,
Both by finite consciousness and by
Light slowed by virtual particle pairs.

Phantasmal Being
Each ‘now’ that’s created and recreated
Over the various relative quanta
Has really already happened, coming, going,
And never ever returning, gone in a flash.

Once Upon a ‘Time’
Of course, it did all really happen ‘once’,
As in all-at-once, in the timeless realm
That must be the state of the ‘eternal’ IS,
With IS being close to what’s called the ‘Wiz’.

Nether-Nor
So, neither absolute solidity
Nor absolute vacuity can be,
Leaving relativism as a necessity,
Dooming ‘God’, permanence, meaning, and free.

The Play
Our ‘reality’ is as a flip-book’s pages turning,
The still pictures changing a bit, granting
An apparent motion, such as in a movie;
However, we do get to experience it!

Come and Gone
Like the light from a star already spent,
Our ‘get up and go’ has long gone and went.
We all birthed, lived, and died right away;
There’s nothing left but the slo-mo replay.

Being Nothingness
Our parentheses in eternity
Flashes as a twinkling, but’s extended
By ‘time’ into a phantasmic life dream
That’s existent the same as if it were.

In the Eye of the Beholder
A life-dream’s like a rainbow, not really there,
A false phenomenon become tangible
Through relativism, this faux true,
Molding temporary significance.

Arbitrary
Life’s indeterminate and not, the same
Being brought by the virtual as the true,
The mechanics being as incidental
As why ‘color’ chose its wave frequencies.

The Mechanics of Reality
The result, being the message, is undeniable,
But herein we speak of the messenger,
Which is the implementation,
As that of a recording, over a live band.

The Balance of Opposites
Life’s here, as like virtual particles
Born this side of an event horizon
Of a Black Hole, real-eyes(ed) by their presence
In the realm of what’s been radiated.

What Makes No Difference is No Difference
There is no difference in what makes none;
‘Relativism’ is now playing, the living film—
A reality show in the inner theater
Of the mind’s eye, with the ‘I’ observing.

Existence Has No Opposite
‘Possibility’ is what’s fundamental,
For all that can be must first be possible.
This ‘Potential’ for All is the default,
Since a NOT can’t be, or even be meant.

The Math
0/0 = n (all variations), since any n times 0 = 0,
So, 0/0 is as nonexistence divided by itself
Into all of the various relative states;
No absolutes, so there’s only the temporary.

More Math
Zero is the greatest number, for it represents
The sum of negative and positive infinities.
Note that an actual infinity cannot be,
For it cannot be capped, and thus has no being.

Lighting the Way
Our finite speed of light, ‘c’, is such
Because it is slowed by virtual particles,
But, even so, to ride it makes time instant,
With all space shrinking to a point.

The Cosmic Egg
The cosmos is as a giant neutron or photon,
The crests and troughs waving, in a
Relative existence, between Zero and One,
Unable to reach either, jiggling-rippling.

Not Unbreakable, Not Unmakeable
The necessity of no One and no None
Makes for no absolutes, which means
That time, space, matter, and motion
Have no intrinsic, indivisible qualities.

The First Cause
Thus, our ‘reality’ is only apparent,
Yet this effect happens always, everywhere,
For the causeless-defaulted ‘cause’ of this
Potential-Possibility must always be such.

Total Solidity and Complete Vacuity Can’t Be
The One and the None cannot mix;
Then there would be two opposite absolutes;
Plus, what is solid could not move,
So, neither can cut it; relativism rules.

The Duos and Duels of Nature
Dualities seem to assist nature:
Good-evil, on-off, hot-cold, man-woman,
Up-down, left-right, here-there, past-future, and
So, neither can exist without the other.

Opposition Now and Thus Always
Object and Subject are of what Man is made,
Qualia brightly floating in Nature’s shade
Of consciousness, and so then down through history
Opposition’s trace of steps is there to see.

Never/Ever Becoming
What’s said to be eternal isn’t made—
It’s here, from not anything, with no debit paid,
Which is to say, too, it’s not from anywhere,
And that seems pretty much like from nowhere.

No Source
Well, there’s nothing to make anything of,
So, then, that is ever what it’s made of,
Whether eternal or always becoming,
In that nether-land of the law of no laws.

Uncaused
For what is causeless there is no point
At which any specific direction
Can be imparted to it; thus, there is none:
Everything that is possible can happen.

Dichotomy
There must be a duality of Yin and Yang,
Such as Being and Nothingness combined,
For what is complete unto itself has no
Catalyst from which to initiate change.

Binary Dialectic Dichotomies Bifurcate
Of Being and Nothingness the Universe
Banged forth space and time intertwined,
And within this became the contrast
Of electromagnetism’s transition.

The Oppositional Essence Continues On
Of electromagnetism then
Particles and radiation become,
Opposed, as lumps and fields, as incarnate:
Electrons, six quark types, and the photon.

The Why of Being and Nothingness
Being and all that it is not exhausts
All Possibility, as opposites,
And so they must form a duality,
For there’s no point to specify either.

Beyond Local Reality
Time, space, stuff, change, and form are real-ized from
The Fundamental Possibility,
Becoming the penultimate reality,
One possible from the probabilities.

Quantum Superposition is Real
Our reality comes not from nothing,
But exists always as possibility,
One that amounts to something workable,
Among all in superposition.

The First Impossibility
No form of a penultimate realness
Could exist alone before the rest, since
Everything is quantum-known-all-at-once;
For what could make the choice among many?

The Second Impossibility
Nor comes it from an absolute nothing,
Since there can be no such ‘thing’ at all,
So, since either way is impossible,
Fundamental Possibility IS.

The Unbelievable Truth
This ultimate basis of reality,
Though not much like our local reality,
Is hinted at by quantum physics—
It forms reality real as can be!

The Verifiable Truth
So how else could it be, for particles
Do appear and disappear from somewhere,
Going from here to there, with no between,
Manifesting from no-where to now-here.

The Shimmering Gleam
We butterflies, on the edge of forever’s flight,
Spread fast our wings on the ocean of light
That is of the ageless photonic opposing waves
In no time, mass, or space that is thereby made.

Here and Now Only
We are as beings of the everlasting light dream,
As products time and time again by its means,
Of the eternal return, as baubles blown and burst,
Though frames of time that quench life’s thirst.

Nowhere Man/Woman
Time future, time present, and time past
Are all at once, with not a bit of it to last.
The glorious light flashes us into being shone,
As the light ‘eternal’ of all time to be known.

Back and Forth
The photon secrets something and its anti,
Releasing them as electrons and positrons,
In collisions, regaining them, in their union
Upon annihilations, this zero-point stretched.

The Age-Old Question
Why is there something rather than nothing?
Well, the question is now moot, for there’s neither
An absolute something (it’s relative)
Nor an absolute nothing. Neither can be.

Nothing Outside
What is that which is outside the universe?
There can be no absolute universe
With an absolute nothingness
Outside, so the question’s become moot.

In No Time and No Space
What came first, the matter or the light,
Since it seems that each needs the other to be?
There’s no first, only at the same ‘time’.
Photons, electrons, positrons are all-at-once.

Relativism, Ever In-between
Why is the relative universe
So incredibly ‘infinitely’ large?
Because the small has to be so
Incredibly infinitesimal, as the simple.

Instantaneous
Where did relative existence some from?
There is nothing to make it of, but it had to be,
Since it is here, so it all cancels out,
Instantly; it’s simultaneous.

The Default Condition
Who or what made our relative existence?
No one and no-thing, for it is
Of the simple brute force of all scenarios—
As relatively existing between Zero and One.

No Such Thing
How could some absolute existents
Be indivisible-unbreakable, and unmakeable?
There aren’t any, so the problem is moot.
‘Nothing lasts’—it’s the “nonexistent absolute”.

One of the Better Universes
The flowing through all paths of everything
Guarantees that the best solutions will be found,
Which beats Intelligence that tries to foresee all,
But never can; nor can the complex be First.

The Lumping is Still a Wave
Is the two-slit experiment result perplexing?
No, for fields are primary, not ‘particles’,
For what is thought of as ‘particles’
Are field quanta; a wave will go through both slits.

It is Just to Be
What is the purpose of our existence?
None, but we do ‘exist’ in one of the
Relative scenarios whose path led to us.
Our existence was inherent, all along.

Indirect Existence
But 99.99999 percent of the ‘time’
We were not around, and perhaps ‘we’ are
Not there in 99.99999 percent of all ‘space’.
We weren’t a primary objective, nor was any.

Being
Did the universe have a beginning?
No, because the universe cannot be
Affected by anything outside it.
It just is, and, beyond’, it also isn’t.

Why Not Any Certain Way?
If the relative universe is eternal,
Then what is there to explain the way it is?
It is ‘universes’ in every way,
And so not any universe in particular.

No Linear Movement Through Space
Does a whole new universe appear at every ‘now’?
Yes, one doesn’t step into the same universe twice,
This somewhat analogous to someone clever,
Who said, that we never step into the same river.

Greatness
What is the source of all this existence,
For that still seems to make it great?
Unconsciousness, nothing, no-mind is
The be-all, start-all, and end-all, as ‘great’.

Nature’s Mistake?
Should we then let go of all our ego?
Not necessarily, for the ego is
An input to our resultant zest for life;
However, take it all in with a grain of salt.

Step Back
Yes, detach from it all when necessary.
It is as a play within no play,
In no place in no time, just relative.
The timeless-formless is as ‘nothingness’.

Still Asking
What is the meaning in all that?
Only what we have and enjoy
In the here and now, internally.
Externally, there isn’t anything.

No Real Reality
Forget about indivisible fundamental substance;
It would be unbreakable and thus unmakable.
For the ‘null’, look to the unconscious,
‘Finite’ to consciousness, ‘method’ to the subconscious.

The Gateway to Perfection
Enjoy the play that you get to act in,
Sometimes retreating to the back row,
As the distanced audience, witnessing afar,
Finding peace and everlasting gladness.

not knowing God — Old Brian

He is in hiding — god must be atheist

Then to the rolling Heav’n itself I cried,
Asking, “What Lamp had Destiny to guide
Her little Children stumbling in the Dark?”
And—“A blind understanding!” Heav’n replied.

— FitzOmar

Everything connects to everything else
Through overlapping interference patterns,
And so nothing is so separate at all, as it seems,
But is one large all-encompassing whole.
. . . . . .
We are part and parcel of everything—
We are the cosmos; we are life; we are love;
We are all that is; we are the creator
Of the dance as well as the dancer. — PoeticUniverse

:up:

This then is the secret of the universe,
Knowing of that which underlies all reality:
Fundamental, absolute, indestructible,
Omnipresent, indeterminate, but all pervasive.

Why absolute and fundamental?

Because it is made of one piece—itself,
And therefore indestructible, and eternal, too,
And makes up all that there is, everywhere. — PoeticUniverse

My G*D model is defined as ALL, the Whole of which humans are curious particles.

Interference patterns of virtual reality. — PoeticUniverse

My personal illusion of Reality is created in my own mind by interpreting those incoming signals (wave patterns) according to some inherent (significant) commonality. Like Morse Code, both sender and receiver must speak the same language. In my thesis, the common language of the universe is Information, which boils down to 1 or 0, on or off, dot or dash, From that cosmic communication, we know "part & parcel", absence & presence, "life & love".
.

In No Time and No Space
What came first, the matter or the light,
Since it seems that each needs the other to be?
There’s no first, only at the same ‘time’.
Photons, electrons, positrons are all-at-once. — PoeticUniverse

I was just reminded, by your physical/metaphysical poetry, of the book by Gevin Giorbran : Everything Forever, Learning to See Timelessness.https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Forever-Learning-See-Timelessness/dp/0979186102/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=everything+forever&link_code=qs&qid=1572222362&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-1

He was a poet-scientist , who wrote a mind-boggling book about the universe as a whole. I say "was", because he committed suicide in 2008, shortly after publishing the book. Apparently, his website has been taken down, but here is an old interview on YouTube : https://youtu.be/-SI5MgGnP1g

It occurred to me that your poet-scientist mind might be better able to understand his far-out concepts than less imaginative prosaic thinkers. For example, the eternal "universe" (what I call G*D) is perfect symmetry, and our temporal-material universe is broken symmetry. I don't know if his hypothesis is true -- he discusses Many Worlds and Multiverse conjectures, along with the "God" concept -- but it presents some visionary ways to interpret the Reality that seems bottomless, the deeper we look into it.

EVERYTHING FOREVER

Time is one enormous moment
Where children play
not knowing of a tomorrow
where people walk along an ocean
and gaze in wet air
This sense of separation and loss
is all illusion
though old men tell of the past
as if it is gone somewhere else
to children who listen
as if it used to be
We all walk here in time
not yet knowing
as we ponder the mystery
and animals listen
that all in this same moment
the world begins
and the world ends
while these waves
crash upon the shore
regardless
And now as I touch your hand
time will stand still
and trap something there forever
for us to view from some heaven
as we are forever born
into an endless moment”
― Gevin Giorbran, Everything Forever: Learning to See Timelessness
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/61155.Gevin_Giorbran

I was just reminded, by your physical/metaphysical poetry, of the book by Gevin Giorbran : Everything Forever, Learning to See Timelessness — Gnomon

You are a genius, for a digest of 'Everything Forever' is next in the poem, completing it, as 'The Final Answer', although it's rather long; Nobody's portion is done, but he referenced Giorbran in a forum post and so must have liked Gevin's idea. Nobody is probably not dead but cannot currently be found anywhere online.

Time Forward
The Alpha of the Beginning can’t be
From the impossible nonexistence;
Only time begins, and so the universe
Must be such that time moves frames forward.

Grouping Order to Symmetry Order
Wherefore why the ‘improbable’ Alpha,
It being the most complete grouping order—
Separated matter / inverse matter?
Only then is the pull toward symmetry.

To the ‘Improbable’
All the possibilities of the imbalances
Must trace back to the one and only state
Of the most probable beginning of all,
The separation of matter and anti-matter.

Between River Shores and Lakes Alpha/Omega
The ultimate, flat, symmetry order
Of the Omega—the end of all, draws
The river of time along, guiding it,
Through the probability patterns.

The Wave Function of the Universe
Totality is in a superposition,
All at once—of no time and of no space,
The quantum probability patterns
Really being so, not just a math tool.

From Grouping Order to Blended Symmetry Order
The Time River of Probabilities
Flows smoother and further near its center,
While near the shores there are eddies and swirls,
Contrasts, lumpiness, ebbs—even back flow.

Timeless ‘Time’
The pages turn and the living film plays,
Motion but apparent, as successive frames—
All the alternate plot’s scenarios being,
Which will blend into ‘everything forever’.

We Reflecting the Universe Start-End
The two brain hemispheres, too, must reflect
The nature of the universe itself,
As the grouping order versus and with
The whole of the symmetry order.

The Hare Beats the Turtle
The universe expands, forming a light cone;
The arc of the ‘ice-cream’ end getting flatter,
Seeming to take forever to straighten—
Accelerating expansion bridges the gap.

It Has Always Been
Nonexistence can’t be, nor even meant;
So it is that existence must be here;
There’s no other option, by necessity,
And thus herein these pages we learn its ways.

Divergence and Convergence
Top-down drives the bottom-up ‘events’,
The future ever affecting the present;
The flat whiteness of the Omega End
Brings forth diversified prismatic colors.

Enfoldment/Unfoldment
Electrons, protons, seem ‘bottom-up’
But are ‘enfolded’ in the top-down whole,
As with Bohm’s implicit order guiding
The blooming, unfolding, explicit order.

The Second of the Final Laws
Boltzman’s increasing disorder (entropy),
Due to there being many more states of
Disorder than order, is close to the mark,
But it’s more-so of the ungrouped patterns.

As Well, There Are Many More Ways For…
The universe to be lumpy, in degrees,
Than for it to be perfectly smooth,
And that’s why there’s still a grouping order,
As with galaxies and solar systems.

The Opposite ‘Improbable’
The not so ‘improbable’ symmetry
Of uniformity comes at future’s end;
This Omega symmetry order is
The opposite of Alpha’s grouping order.

Bohm’s Poem of Home
Classical physics says that reality
Is of particles that separate
The world into independent elements;
But now I am proposing the reverse…

Close Condensations Approximate a Track
The fundamental reality is en-un-foldment;
Particles are abstractions from that.
Electrons don’t exist continuously
But are coming, going, then coming again.

Real Quantum Mechanics
Possibilities are actualities, so
Possibilities exist, in a timeless way,
So then we have a simple solution
To why our universe came from a dense state.

All at Once
All the possible patterns of the past
And future exist simultaneously,
Independent of the passage of time frames,
So, the history of a temporal universe…

Why Time
Moving through those possible patterns
Will inevitably trace backward to
The extreme, greatest imbalance, and hence
To the severe order of the Alpha start.

Time’s Direction
It seems strange that time began from Alpha,
Unless patterns are physically real.
Then time invariably originates
From the greatest imbalance of them all.

Toward Balance
Time’s forward direction is ever toward balance.
And so when it’s traced backward, that same path
Invariably originates from imbalance;
The temporal universe is as it must be.

Time Explained
Any path of time embedded within
A physically real pattern space would
Exhibit a history that originates from the
Single most improbable location of all: Alpha.

Probable Existence
Since pattern space is existingly there
Then the flow of time is built into reality,
Causing probable time-worlds to exist, while
Extremely improbable time-worlds do not.

What Exists
All possibilities must exist,
Because nonexistence cannot be so.
Existence is inevitable. What does exist?
Whatever is possible to exist does exist.

Our Existence is Not Absurd
Time-worlds are secondary, subject to
The realer reality of timeless patterns.
Time’s passage must pass through patterns;
‘Tis no more spectacular than a moment.

What Patterns Lead to
The must-existence of patterns is great—
For the hierarchy of atomic elements,
Stars systems, bio-life, consciousness,
And finally intelligence and wisdom.

No Chaotic Change
If time and change were not restricted
To probability’s arrow of time
Built into pattern space then anything
Could happen and would happen, as chaos.

Quantum Collapse
Quantum events are a “handshake” between
Past (retarded waves) information
And future (advanced waves) information,
Causing the probabilities to collapse to ‘now’.

Probabilities Produced From the Whole
Time doesn’t simply roll into the future,
For there’s a mesh of probabilities
Where possible pasts and futures meet,
Which scientists correctly call ‘non-local’.

The Complete Transaction
When we stand in the dark and look at
A star not only have the retarded waves
From the star have been long traveling,
But advanced waves have reached into the past.

The End Promotes the Means
Time’s river, having a specific ending, explains
Why the universe’s wave function is specific.
If what’s possible was just coming from the past,
There’s no reasonable explanation…

The Guidance Goal: Lake Alpha to Lake Omega
For the control of all the probabilities,
Such as the wave density of atomic particles,
A river only from the past would be
Flowing outward into chaos, but it can’t.

The New Natural Selection
‘Evolution’ is thus an ordered happening,
From the unnoted neutral order in the future,
Along with the positive order of the past.
(So now we know there must be a negative.)

The Whole Thing
The positive order in the Alpha past
Is only half of the Cosmos’ puzzle,
Merely half of a larger duality, one side
Of the great divide, one side of the coin.

The Chess Board
Our Alpha is one chess player as the game begins,
When all the pieces of one color are divided apart,
Half of the most extreme case of grouping order;
Both Alphas are the highest imbalance and contrast.

Time, and Time Again
Time travels from positive to neutral,
While anti-time travels from negative to neutral,
But, note that time & anti-time are much identical.
We may even be alternating back and forth.

Matter Traveling Backward in Time
If matter is evolving forward in time,
Anti-matter is matter evolving backward in time,
In the direction of our own positive Alpha,
Explaining why anti-matter is unstable on our side.

Other Matters
Stable anti-matter exists on the other side
Of ours in anti-time, traveling inversely in time,
Not backwards, but away from the negative Alpha
Toward the universal Omega.

Space-Time Distance
Since time is a direction in space,
Then the space that we’re within is special.
It’a not a 3-D space in which things move about;
It is instead what Einstein called space-time.

4-D, Not 3-D
Space-time is a product of “4-D directions”
In space that travel through a series of many
3-D block-like spaces, jumping from one to the next,
As a new volume dependent on the 4-D directions.

The Probability of Balance
Exterior to the 3-D spaces, the 4-D volume
That we exist within changes and transforms;
It evolves because most of the spacial
Directions move from Alpha toward Omega.

The Unnoted Dimension
This 4-D volume is what collapses
In the phase of accelerating expansion (Big Rip),
Even though the actual universe is expanding.
This acceleration is inevitable.

Driven by Opposites
This dominant probability
Makes our volume (our space) positive
In reference to the volume of
Anti-time which is negative.

Inversion
Anti-time is a negative space,
Or negative space-time,
Which is properly referred to
As negative volume.

The Unseen Scene
Inverse matter can only exist in
The negative volume of anti-time.
We cannot observe the negative density
Of an inverse-proton in our positive space.

Two Worlds
Our positive volume would collapse
Before the inverse proton could
Exist spatially extended, on our side
Of the dividing line between worlds.

Amazing
The negative electron is but a point particle.
Our positive volume collapses before
The negative density that gives the electron
A definite mass can exist spatially extended.

Front and Back
Electrons are one side of inverse-protons in anti-time,
Which means the back side of our protons
Are inverse electrons, and our electrons
Are the back side of someone else’s protons.

For Opposites to Move To Balance
The whole progression of time is driven
By a slow cosmic influx of negative density leaking
Into our positive volume from the other side;
A slow merging of the two sides is occurring,

Expansion
The two sides must slowly and gradually unite,
Which from our perspective causes
The cosmos to grow larger and expand,
In the first steps away from Alpha,…

Divergence
Time is stepping away from the uniformity
And sameness of a perfect positive state
And is necessarily moving into the
Beginning of variety and diversity.

Intermixed
The negative can visibly invade Alpha
By tunneling into its positive space,
Creating fluctuations in the CBR, or at
Micro-scales as negative charge point particles.

The Cosmic Plans
In order to control the cosmos,
In the necessity to bring itself about,
Omega must even rigidly regulate
The early cosmos in its first moments.

Equality
As if planning to bring about complexity and life,
The early fluctuations in expansion are moderate,
The masses of electrons all kept equal,
The ratio of electrons-protons kept even.

Has to Be
With the precision of a watchmaker,
The inevitable future carefully designs
The stable particles with properties that will
Produce the periodic table, molecules, even DNA.

Only Two Ways
Why just the proton and electron?
Why just two stable fundamental particles?
Why are they matched with polar charges?
They are forged with a specific goal in mind.

All the Pieces of the Puzzle
We know what we think of as a material universe
Is really an intricate interplay of imbalances.
All that is known are positives and negatives,
As the stable protons and electrons.

The March of Time
Following time backward only increases imbalance,
In seeing that time originates fully positive,
And then slowly becomes less positive,
Until it becomes neutral, centered.

The Trend Shows
We now realize there actually should be
Great imbalances evident in the world around us.
There should be even much greater
Imbalances evident in our Alpha past.

1836 Times More Massive
The proton should be heavier than the electron.
We don’t note an equal number of anti-matter galaxies.
We shouldn’t expect there to be equal amounts
Of matter & anti-matter near the beginning of time.

The Mystery
The question that has haunted us for so long,
“Why is there something rather than nothing?”
Is related to asking “Why is there asymmetry?”
“Why are there imbalances present?”

The Results
Form and material things, substance itself,
Are products of the imbalances that
Exist within the cosmic balance—
Everything a great tapestry of imbalance.

Further Why
And when we ask the question “Why are
There imbalances instead of why somethingness?”
It’s simple and unavoidable that imbalances exist.
Imbalances are natural inside any overall balance.

Should Have Known the Timeless Everything
Our finite world could only be an imbalanced system.
We exist because a balanced whole exists,
Which we incorrectly see as nothing,
And worse still, confuse with nonexistence.

The Forces Explained
All forces are probabilities, simply the
Most predictable events we experience.
In fact, gravity is the probability
For time to travel backwards.

Gravity is Time Moving Backwards
Gravity is trying to recreate the past.
In an expanding universe the past
Is increasingly denser; less expanded.
Gravity battles with the universe’s expansion.

Expansion is a Force From the Future
The trend of nature is not at all toward disorder,
But it is for balance to increase.
Being drawn toward the balance of zero
The universe invariably expands.

Two Steps Forward, One Step Back
The universe’s expansion is time moving forward.
Cosmological expansion isn’t a consequence
Of some chance explosion in the past.
It is a force, just like gravity (Gravity’s losing).

Electromagnetism is Time Moving Forward
Electromagnetism is the perfect balance
Of the future’s absolute zero influencing the present.
The balance of the future, the most probable state,
Is a great cosmic attractor of all universes-change.

Push-Pull
We can feel absolute zero pulling
And pushing the cosmos around.
We feel this balance of zero
As electricity and magnetism.

Moving Toward Greater Balance
Positive and negative particles
Are moving nearer to the balance,
For like particles will naturally repel
While opposite particles attract.

Imagine Electromagnetism in Reverse
Like particles would then attract
And opposite particles would repel.
Such a force would cause positive and negative
Particles to divide apart into separate groups.

Nucleon Binding
In fact, when like particles such as
Positive protons bond together,
Time is actually moving backward.
The strong force is electromagnetism in reverse.

How it Works
The strong force battles against electromagnetism,
Causing positive protons
to attract at short distances.
If protons and neutrons get close enough,
The repulsion of electromagnetism is overcome.

The Ranges
The strong force holds the nucleus together,
Just like gravity holds-creates stars and galaxies.
The strong force is the short range gravity;
Electromagnetism dominates on the larger scale.

The Power Broker Breaker
Something must overcome the strong force,
Because electromagnetism cannot break
The bond between like protons by itself.
Electromagnetism-expansion beats gravity-strong.

Forces Are the Possible Directions of Time
At some point in the future the weak force
Has to break down all the complex atoms in
The universe into individual protons and electrons.
The Weak Force is time moving forward.

The Power of the Weak
The weak force is an extension of electromagnetism.
The weak force grew out of electromagnetism
In the early stages of the big bang,
Prior to which there was just the electroweak force.

No Absolute Motion
Objects do not move about in Newton’s vessel
Of empty space because a real perfectly
Flat space would be absolutely chock full.
Thus, the relative, not absolute universe.

Empty Curvatures
Objects can only exist as distinct forms
In a space where their opposites have
Been removed or displaced to create
A half space or parallel regions.

Space, the Final Frontier
This creates the present interdependence
Between matter and space which led Einstein
To describe space as an extension of mass.
‘Space’ seems to be the ultimate challenge.

The Ultimate Puzzle
We’ve learned about space relative to materials.
A common theme is that matter and space
Are two forms of the same thing. Not exactly.
Matter is really an absence of content.

All Told and Tolled
If the cosmos stretches totally flat,
Then matter and space are equivalent,
But this leads to a very dramatic switch
In how we evaluate the universe, whereby we see…

What Matters
That particles are holes in a primary full space,
Rather than material things arisen
Above and more primary than space.
Matter is a bi-product of space.

Two Apples Means Two More Anti-Apples
For our universe to exist, an identical
But opposite anti-matter universe
Has to be removed from space.
Why are we separate from our other half?

Half and Half
Perfect symmetry doesn’t create nonexistence.
Perfect symmetry is just everything experienced
At the same time in the same space.
Opposites don’t cancel—we’re here observing half.

In Order For There to be Symmetry
From our place in the world, we cannot
Or would not directly observe unified symmetry.
It’s hidden, in our future or in our past.
We need to be here; there has to be asymmetry.

Nonexistence Isn’t; Perfect Symmetry Is
The combination of our galaxy
With an inverse anti-matter galaxy,
As combined, and every other pair of galaxies,
All exist joined together in ordinary space.

Taken and Placed Somewhere Else
And so matter is not more than space;
It is less than space; it’s what happens
When part of something whole is taken away,
Taken from the place and time we call ‘now’.

The New Normal
It’s difficult to re-normalize after such a switch,
But the fullness or substantive aspect we attribute
To matter is present in space more than in matter.
Dense matter’s an absence, as in the tiny early universe.

Things Aren’t More Than Nothing
Mass and density are both a measure of absence.
Objects cannot exist unless their opposite
Is removed from that seeming emptiness.
Things are then less than everything.

Accentuating the Positive
A negative density can only
Exist in a negative volume, just as
Positive density can only exist in a positive volume.
This allows the mass value to ever remain positive.

Curves
Matter is like bubbles in a water aquarium—
Tiny voids in a denser medium.
Density is a positive or negative void
That causes the curvature of the bubble.

Going, Going…
We live in a positive bubble (volume)
That is actually collapsing,
As distant galaxies expand away from us
At speeds beyond the speed of light.

Everything Leaks
We detect the mass of a negative
Density as a point of zero volume,
Or what is called a point particle;
Electrons leaked over from the anti-time side.

Each as Half of Totality
The electron leak is in response to the
Existence of protons on our side,
Which is why the ratio of electrons
To protons in the universe is exactly even.

The Point of It
So why does the electron point particle
Have a defined mass, as opposed to infinite?
A negative density cannot be
Spatially extended in a positive volume.

Confined to a Point
The electron mass exists in a negative
Volume that opens up beyond the point of the
Electron in the ghostlike invisible partner.
Negative density also explains polarity of charge.

Credited Debits
Positive and negative things are debts
That have to be repaid to a larger neutral space.
Charges reflect imbalances in a spatial content.
To create particles creates indents, or curvatures.

The Flow
The only way for the plus-minus puzzle pieces
To exist separate from one another
Is if time originates from such a state,
An imbalance, then moves toward equilibrium.

One Way
Equilibrium never breaks down into imbalance;
Something does not come from nothing.
But time will start from something imbalanced,
And evolve toward balance, or ‘nothing’.

A Four Dimensional Space
When you combine an infinite past and future,
Time is-was relative (allowing the infinite).
Everything exists in one huge moment of now,
Which supersedes the possibility of existential change.

The Printed Pages
Time-worlds are imprinted within the great moment,
So the time of such worlds must travel linearly
From a beginning on to an ending.
Books have binding; movie frames are projected.

The Clock-Block Universe
At any tick of the clock the world is
In a particular condition or state,
Which is called lateral time, and each distinct
Moment is in an individual universe.

Linear and Lateral Time
How can distinctly separate blocks of space
Be simultaneously fused into a linear progression?
If they are fused then they are not distinct;
If they are distinct, then they aren’t really fused.

The Separate and the Common
What separates one block of time from another?
Only the definition of each time block
Maintains it as separate from other states, and
Spaces are always linked by a common existence.

The Sum of the Fragments
They are all embedded in the same great
Never ending moment—all fragments of the whole.
Each spatial pattern is a tiny internal part,
And only the patterns’ sum creates the whole.

The Lateral
There exist directions in space which travel across
Or through the multiplicity of these blocks—
A 4-D that independently constructs
The lateral component of its surroundings.

Governed by the Innate Probabilities
Each individual direction moving through
The blocks becomes a sort of parent
To a lateral time world—its own 4-D space,
Strictly relative to that single parent direction.

Replacing Chaotic Freedom
Each of these directions in space are free to find
Their way through the overall multispatiality,
Except the direction of travel, and so each path
Is governed by the probabilities of the superspace.

A Very Strict Guidance System
The result is a fourth dimensionality of space,
In which the lateral surroundings of each 4-D
Parent direction are uniquely constructed
Strictly relative to that single parent direction.

The Series of Stills
Time passes through many spaces, and
Each block is an individual moment.
An object does not move through the spaces,
Rather it stays and exists frozen in each space.

Time Rules
Only time, which is actually a
Special direction in space, is able
To pass through multiple 3-D spaces,
Traveling from one moment to the next.

4-D Touches All of 3-D
An undivided existence of all
Conceivable 3-D configurations
Would inevitably create the 4-D of
Spatial directions passing between the blocks.

The Full Range
We will invariably observe a sampling
Of galaxies which reflects the widest range
Of configurations that pattern space dictates, plus
Ranges of solar systems, planets, moons, asteroids.

All
We will observe the whole range of geography,
The whole range of possible chemistry,
The whole range of other lifeforms,
The whole range of personalities.

Connections
All is then integrated into the parent direction,
Inevitably causing expansion and growth—
Letters, words, phrases, sentences, verse (uni).
We ourselves are the evolution of time.

You are a genius, for a digest of 'Everything Forever' is next in the poem, completing it, as 'The Final Answer', although it's rather long; Nobody's portion is done, but he referenced Giorbran in a forum post and so must have liked Gevin's idea. Nobody is probably not dead but cannot currently be found anywhere online. — PoeticUniverse

Do you have a link to "The Final Answer"? Was it written by Nobody or by you?

Do you have a link to "The Final Answer"? Was it written by Nobody or by you? — Gnomon

It's all there already, as combined in Nobody's part and Gevin's part. I wrote and arranged both parts into the poem based on what they said in prose. Nobody Nowhere was on the forum, ToeQuest, long ago.

So, per Giorbran, for Cosmic and biological evolution, it looks like we need more than just 'random' but less than God, since the superpositions must either trace back to total order (imbalance) or trace forward to disorder (balance), and so time can only begin from order, as with matter separated from antimatter—time thus pushed forward by this past arrangement and further pulled forward by future disorder.

My G*D model is defined as ALL, the Whole of which humans are curious particles. — Gnomon

While we ponder this and all, we have some comic relief as Nobody returns from adjusting the DNA of the universe in the continuing story of 'Butterflies At the Edge of Forever':

Nobody’s Fake Home Movies of the CMBR Trip

Nobody invited everyone from the forum and the government over to see some home movies of his trip to the CMBR. The CIA, FBI, NSA, DNA, and three former Presidents attended, as well. President YoungerBush would’ve come, but was on vacation for a month, shooting lame ducks and leakers.

Pasta and antipasta was served for dinner, depending on one’s universal orientation. A few mixed it, trying to cancel out the effects of eating too much, and promptly exploded from both ends.

“Thanks, everyone, for your support,” said Nobody. “The reception was great; no static or noise. I can take some questions before we start the film that filmed the start.”

Shakespeare raised his hand.

“What’s the question?” said Nobody.

“To be or not to be.”

“Good answer.”

“How did you survive after you left the last Daily Planet restaurant?” asked Austin.

“I picked up some frozen food in the Ice Age.”

“But how did you cook it?” persisted Austin, his brain having been temporarily fried, boiled, and sun roasted in New Jersey.

“Remember, there were microwaves all around.”

“Where did you get that “vacuum” cleaner?” asked Profpat.

“I always carry one, for I have another at home. The salesman said that it would cut my work in half, so I bought two.”

“Any great words to characterize the epic journey to the CMBR?” asked RascalPuff.

“‘Veni, Vidi, Velcro’; I came, I saw, and I stuck around.”

“Did you get lost?” asked Fredrick.

“I never get lost, even if I’m told to; I discover alternate destinations.”

“Did you make enough money to retire, and, if so, can I have your old tires?” inquired Graybeard.

“Yes, I did, but it’s really a cruel choice: Work or watch daytime TV.”

“Did you understand Everything? asked Fredrick.

“Often I thought I did, but then I regained consciousness.”

ChickenMan probed, “Were any chickens harmed during the making of your film? Also, did Mother Earth and Father Time produce the cosmic egg?”

“Inconceivable, but I like your approach… now let’s see your departure.”

“What’s reality, really?” asked Mkirkpatrick.

“Much ado about nothing.”

“Is your journey responsible for Hillary running for President?” asked Bill Clinton.

“No, but there was a Presidents’ Day sale at Macy’s and all men’s pants were half off.”

“I’m cured now,” said Bill. “There is no relationship, depending on what the meaning of ‘is’ is. There is really no safe sex from aides. Also, I went to a self-help group for compulsive talkers; it’s called On and On Anon.”

“Why are the two President Clintons always out beating the Bushes?” quizzed ElderBush of Bill.

“Because Al tried to Gore you and lost to Chad, so I must run for First Gentleman to restore our dynasty over yours. Plus, one handy lady bird is worth two bushes anytime.”

“Okay Presidents,” interjected Nobody, “no politics, a word that means many blood sucking insects. I’m still taking questions.”

“What are all the answers?” asked someone in training, “and why are the answers so hard?”

“The answers are easy; they are ‘yes’, ‘no’, and ‘maybe’, which to kids all mean yes. It’s the questions that are hard.”

Graybeard pleaded, “My X-rated x-ray vision has degenerated; I’m only seeing skeletons now!”

“Maybe you could get a job at an airport.”

“What did the arts graduate say to the engineering graduate?” asked Profpat.

“Would you like fries with your order, sir?”

“Did you meet any of your ancestor’s ancestors?” asked Graybeard.

“I saw my family tree.”

“What the heck!” wondered Graybeard out loud.

“My great-ancestors descended from the trees.”

“What is the moon really made of?” asked Rascal.

“Swiss cheese.”

“But it’s all hard and crusty, although it does have holes.”

“That’s what happens when you leave cheese out.”

“How do you make holy water?” questioned Profpat.

“You boil the hell out of it!”

“What do you think about sex on TV?” wondered Lloyd.

“It can’t hurt you unless you fall off. Now let’s get serious, folks. We’re all used to the new language features by now and the joke industry that they spawned.”

“What did you see in the Garden of Time?” asked Mkirkpatrick.

“There were glimmers and gleams and golden dappled lights like stars hovering and floating slowly about the scene, and a door that invited me into the inner sanctum of the night watchmen’s mainspring. There I found CARE, a gentle old man who sat silently by the sundial in Time’s Sanctuary and slowly marked the hours by the shadows that crept over the face of eternity. I asked him, ‘What time is it?’

“And he answered to my surprise, ‘Do you mean now?’”

“Yogi?” I asked.

“‘No, Yogi is my distant relative, twice removed, but he kept coming back. Anyway, here is the riddle of now:

A moment contains eternal reward;
Both past and future are rolled thereinward.
Time never passes; it stays as it is;
Still, it is ceaselessly moving onward.’”

“I continued on to the CMBR,” said Nobody, “but I could see through it and the universal DNA matrix off toward the radiant void and there I saw JOY, forever young, who turned toward the glow of the fair light that from the infinite did show, basked in its golden beams, and spread her radiance to everything that’s so.”

“God is a woman?” Hillary asked.

“Yes, Mrs. President-to-be who is no longer to be.”

“Now that we know the secrets of the universe, what remains as the ultimate question?” RascalPuff asked.

“It is, ‘Why do squirrels always run back under your car after they are already in the clear?’”

“Some things remain unfathomable,” ruminated Puff.

“How are you feeling? Wasn’t the trip quite a strain on you?” wondered Fredrick.

“Yes, I fell into an upholstery machine, but I am fully recovered now, but if I don’t pay my exorcist I may get repossessed. Also, I entered a period of great inflationary expansion and suffered a small cut on my forehead when the road rose up to meet me, but I have since lost some weight.”

“Did you hear that the short fortune-teller who escaped from prison was a small medium at large?” asked WiseGuy.

“I have now. That was sure a puny pun that deserves punitive measures.”

“Does “nothing” exist out there?” asked Fredrick.

“No, nada, null, zilch, naught, nix, nil, and zippo. Nothing is unconceivable of existence, while the pregnancy of possibility is the mother of all invention. Austin told me to say that.”

“Since the government mostly paid for this trip, isn’t the money tainted?” asked Profpat.

“A lot of money is tainted. Taint yours and it taint mine.”

“What is the purpose of life?” asked Austin, seriously.

“To let it flow through you.”

“What is your first memory of flowing life?” continued Austin.

“I do remember being a gleam in my father’s eye, my first glint of spirit. And half of me seems to remember shooting down some sort of tube and emerging into some liquid, then some kind of Olympic swimming race and a merging with an oval football kind of thing and an endless floating about for many months. Then, about a month before I was born, I heard some sounds, like ‘Cootchy-cootchy-coo. Who’s in there?’

“Then, the day before I was born, a voice told me that there is a whole big world out there, and I thought, no, there can’t be; there is only water and calm and darkness; that’s all there is; there can be nothing more. I guess I was not such a visionary back then. Then, the next day—I remember it well since I was born right on my birthday (but had no party until a year later), I was thrust into the light, and I think my first words were, well, it’s a bit hard to recall them since I was very young when I was born, but, since I am a writer, I did speak my first words early, and I think they were: ‘Does anyone have a pair of sunglasses; it’s awfully bright out here.’”

Abraham Lincoln asked, “Why did they move my birthday?”

“Well, February is a confusing short month; for example, this year Fat Tuesday is on February 12, which used to be your birthday, before they moved it, and is the big finale of Mardi-Gras, when we’re supposed to eat enough pancakes and sausage to get us through the 40 days of Lent’s fast food (Wendy’s & McDonalds), I mean fasting, and give up sweets, as of Ash Wednesday, the 13th, a sort of smoke-in day when we remember dust to dust and that we will eventually make ashes of ourselves, then VD on the 14th, I mean Valentine’s Day, when we are supposed to eat a lot of sweets again! What a mixed-up time. Also, Abe, we wanted another three-day weekend, so we combined all of youse guys birthdays into President’s Day. Plus, it is the month of love, as well as skunk mating season, but I repeat myself.”

“I don’t understand the new road signs,” stated Virginia, the only woman on ToeQuest, who is actually Austin’s mother. He signed her up so he could try to use her WebTV to get on ToeQuest from Chicago (it didn’t work very well).

“A 4-WAY-STOP sign means to use the foot brake, then downshift, pull the emergency brake, and drag your foot. STOP A-HEAD says that a head is in the road! WATCH OUT FOR CHILDREN means: Don’t hug, fondle, kiss, touch, or sweet-talk beneath the sign, for you may do the conceivable. So, get a room. BIKE PATH: The official path for bikes is between the two yellow lines in the middle of the road. Also remember that if you speed up when you see a yellow light it will never turn red, since its frequency shifts toward green as you near C, the speed of light! Furthermore, morons always drive slower than you and idiots drive faster than you! Finally, jay walkers have the right of death.”

It was time to show the movie again, but larger, so Nobody powered up his 8 foot diagonal iphone. The video showed someone in the 1800’s riding a horse, then someone riding a horse in the previous century, and so on back for tens of thousands of years, then hundreds of thousands of years of cavemen walking.

Profpat, bored, tried to sneak out the window to go do some exciting accounting. Fredrick tried dividing by zero on his calculator. Abraham Lincoln wrote an address on the wrong side of an envelope. Graybeard counted the spots on the ceiling and connected the dots into a pleasing image. Austin fell asleep. Mkirkpatrick went to Turkey before it could be devoured by Hungary. Rascal slipped off into the 7th dimension for a while (the Heavenly realm). MJA said that boredom is not really equal to excitement after all.

“The trip wasn’t all that interesting at first,” said Nobody, “as we now live in the most amazing of all time. Soon, we may be able to alter our own DNA and speed evolution on its way. We have just heard the Big Bang and have sprung off of the starting line… The human race is on. We are perhaps 1% of the way along to perfection. The possibilities for the finish line are endless, for scientific revelations are entering the fast lane almost daily. Life now is really a royal diadem of momentous gems shining through us all. We live in the best of times, as the universe is truly ours to experience. It is the ultimate free lunch (how do you account for that, Profpat?). Please contribute to ThePhilosophyForum, for that’s where Everything is happening. We accept all denominations, but we prefer fifties and hundreds.”

Nobody sped up the video of the past and soon everything went back into the stars and then the stars dispersed into dust which went back to form the words “The Beginning”, as the film ended.

“‘Veni, Vidi, Velcro’; I came, I saw, and I stuck around.” — PoeticUniverse

Whew! :joke:

Whew! — Gnomon