Can god be just if he exceeds the good justice standard that the bible, god’s WORD, claims is just?

Even if the God of the Bible condemning someone to hell forever is just, it is still not necessary for the God of the Bible to do such a thing. The reason is that the Bible claims that God is all powerful, therefore the God of the Bible can resolve any matter without causing any suffering.

Also always bear in mind, even if its difficult and you rather feel to ignore it, because it may be so tough to have to live with it: The Bible, "God's word in human language": the text were written by fallible human beings. The same apply to its composition when the distinction between canon and apocrypha were made: again the human fallibility. (This despite their having been "inspired")

Even if the God of the Bible condemning someone to hell forever is just, it is still not necessary for the God of the Bible to do such a thing. The reason is that the Bible claims that God is all powerful, therefore the God of the Bible can resolve any matter without causing any suffering. — elucid

I agree. A good god would do the good thing and not the evil thing.

Regards
DL

The Bible, "God's word in human language": the text were written by fallible human beings.

I do not think that the original poster is trying to prove that the Bible is true. I think the original poster is just wondering if condemning someone to hell forever over somethings is a just punishment.

(This despite their having been "inspired") — Daniel C

Sorry buddy. This does not make a lot of sense to me and sounds more like trying to justify what cannot be justified.

Are you suggesting that god's inspiration is so inept or shallow that his scribes cannot get his dictation right?

Would a god who wishes to give us a message not make sure it is well written before sending his draft to the printers?

Regards
DL

elucid — elucid

You are correct but these questions often end in going in various different side roads.

I am used to theist deflecting whenever morals are under discussion.

They do not want to touch on that issue with a 10 foot pole, which shows the deapth of the hipocracy in some of them.

Daniel. This answer was not intended to include you. I do not know your motivation.

If it does, no apology buddy.

Regards
DL

Elucid, my friend. Pause and consider: the question "if condemning someone to hell foreverover over somethings is a just punishment", must be based on the assumption that it is true that such punishments really exists, otherwise why ask the question? That this punishment really exists, is based on Biblical scripture with the precondition that this scripture is true. So if this scripture is not true the question is no longer valid. From my point of view the Bible contains many statement which are not true. Texts affirming this type of punishment belong to these false statements. Probably the main reason for this is the role of "human fallibility" in the Bible's composition. (This does not imply that no truth or value is to be found in this book - on the contrary!) But, on the other hand, if you consider the Bible to be a book containing only truth, the situation changes and the above-mentioned question becomes a fully valid question - you will thus be able to see why the question cannot be a valid one for me, but although this is the case for me, for many others it will not be. (In a different debate it will be possible to argue for or against the truth validity and value of the Bible.)
Gnostic Christian Bishop, I hope my motivation is clear to you now and that you also understand why I do not take your question to be a valid question. However, please accept that I respect your right to accept the Bible as a book of truth. I am in favour of religious freedom, find all the major religions of the world fascinating subjects in spite of the fact that I find myself in continuous disagreement with them on many matters. That being said, I remain in a process of being a lifelong student and always try to open myself in this learning process in an attempt to understand them better and gain more insight.

Is god a just god? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Here's what Thomas Jefferson had to say about it:

“Indeed I tremble for my country when reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever..."

Maybe we should hope not.

“Indeed I tremble for my country when reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever..."

Maybe we should hope not. — Bitter Crank

I understand your point.

If god is not just, why call him good and just?

As a Canadian who used to respect Americans, I wish real Americans would come back.

It looks like I will have to wait for the next generation to grow up.

I miss my old American friends and hope the U.S. gets well soon.

Regards
DL

The original meaning is simply that those who refuse to drink are condemned to go thirsty, but the idea became distorted over time.

The original meaning is simply that those who refuse to drink are condemned to go thirsty, but the idea became distorted over time. — Wayfarer

Like many Christian beliefs, yes.

The thing is, Yahweh is a genocidal moral monster. Would you drink from his cup?

I would pass real quick.

Regards
DL

I think you’re on a recruitment drive for an alternative religion.

I think you’re on a recruitment drive for an alternative religion. — Wayfarer

I used to participate on a very different forum, The Lycaeum, in the late '90s and early '00s, and I am pretty sure this same guy, under the same handle, was pursuing the same thing there.

Gnostic Christian Bishop has been doing this for YEARS, on a number of different forums. — petrichor

I would pass real quick.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

... and he always closes his posts with Regards, DL.

He abandoned that for a while, but old habits die hard.

===================

My take on the original topic: There is no god, so there is no just god or unjust god. Just say no to god.

I think you’re on a recruitment drive for an alternative religion. — Wayfarer

Absolutely.

Do you like the present mainstream misogynous and homophobic religions and their genocidal slave wanting gods?

I do not and see better options out there.

Should we not all strive to follow the best ideology we can find while trying to mitigate the harm of the mainstream garbage religions?

Regards
DL

petrichor — petrichor

Guilty as charged. That particular forum did not last long on my favorite list.

Regards
DL

He abandoned that for a while, but old habits die hard. — god must be atheist

That I do not recall but then I have a poor memory. Good research.

Regards
DL

That particular forum did not last long on my favorite list. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Oh yeah? Why not?

Oh yeah? Why not? — petrichor

I did not find any interesting people to chat with.

I do recall the one guy that was not bad but that was about it. You might have noted that it is not a super active place, if it is still open.

I joined the site to see what they had to say about the insight and apotheosis that some say some drugs produce. I did not find any. Not even anything that was superior to my own apotheosis. At least I could articulate mine while no one there seemed able to articulate theirs.

Regards
DL

You might have noted that it is not a super active place, if it is still open. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

It's long gone.

It's long gone. — petrichor

I guess that most had my same opinion.

Long live this place as there are a good number of decent minds here.

Regards
DL

There's been a few discussions lately which pick on really easy targets, like that discussion on "miracle cures", like the one on "immortal souls", and like your discussion on homophobic religious beliefs. This is another one of those discussions. You're right, but it's not very interesting to point out the obvious.

S
The very odd time, I change a mind from an immoral point of view to a moral point of view.
I help a person gain the most powerful gift that can exist. A better point of view.
All I did was point out the obvious.
Here is a recent conversation.

----------------
Ok...we both know that infanticide is wrong, but what exactly is it about it that is wrong?

wildcat
You just became your Father and ascended to the Judgement seat.
I did not think I would ever see such a rare thing.
You might be one of the chosen of the Gnostic Christian Jesus. He recognizes by your works and deeds and would see that you irrefutably have added gain to your moral sense. You created a paradigm shift in your own mind. Likely now what is a Christ consciousness.
What is wrong with infanticide is covered by the Golden Rule as well as being a commandment in every decent religious and political legal system.
Even as we all ignore it and kill to this point where we are engineering our own extinction.
That human extinction has already begun. Ask any child to confirm this fact.
The immoral are very dim and I am please that you have brightened.
Your new light brings tears to my mind’s eye.
Thank you for the pleasure and pain.
My best regards.
DL

Yes, yes, brilliant. You're a saviour. Keep up the good work. But it's not very interesting for anyone of intelligence.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

Regards
DL

I want to consider for a moment the question of how just god is according to the bible. The picture of the "god" that I see is the following: one day, a very long time ago there came into being a being finding that he had more power than can ever be imagined. Wondering what to do with all this power he decided, without any consultation, to create everything that were created. Then, after thinking a bit, after he had created everything, he decided to create this creature called man. But then, almost immediately after he had done this, things started to go wrong. This made him very angry, because he could not understand how anything created by him could be the cause of things going wrong. How was it possible for this to happen to him, being almighty!?? But it seemed that nothing could be done about this "problem". Then, immediately he distanced himself from all this "wrong going" blaming everything else for this, he himself accepting no responsibility whatsoever for what went wrong. But a scapegoat had to be found. First he blamed one of his underlings and then man himself. As things "developed" he saw suffering, so much of it that it was not possible to ignore it. There really was no way getting around it. For that. the suffering was just too overwhelming. Maybe he tried some fixes, but nothing seemed to work. Getting more and more annoyed with this bad piece of work he called on his might / power and decided to start punishing. Then, to his astonishment, he saw that punishment did not stop any of the suffering - on the contrary, the suffering increased! What to do now? Start making promises like a good politician: if you can't fix it now, then try to convince the electorate that you and your party will definitely fix it some time in the future. But to enable him to fix it you had to believe in him: belief / faith was the sine qua non for any future fix. And, important, the "big fix" will be limited to only those who have this faith. And, to stay in control, he ordained that this "faith" must be viewed as a special gift from him to those who he elected to receive it. For the rest: eternal damnation. How is that for "JUSTICE"? You decide for yourself. I know for myself: I will rebel against this until the day that I die!

Daniel C — Daniel C

Nicely done.
Christians should discern the lack of justice justice as well.

Regards
DL

PoeticUniverse — PoeticUniverse

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

Thanks for this. — Gnostic Christian Bishop